Old Soical Fund Loan Unpaid Threat

DWPthreat

Hi,
I am hoping you may be able to offer some advice on a problem I am having

On 9th January I received a letter from the Department of Work and Pensions. The letter was titled "About the £71.41 still owed" and dated 2nd Jan

It read

"I am writing to you because JobCentre Plus has told us that the balance of a Social Fund Loan has not been repaid..... ..

Please contact this office, or pay back the money by 09/01/2009 ...."

Now, this came as something of a surprise, as as far as I could recall I never had a Social Fund Loan, and have been working since 1990 without a break, and without claiming any sort of benefits.....

So I called them, expecting them to tell me it was a mistake. Imagine my amazement, when he told me, no mistake, that outstanding money owed to them was from a Social Fund Loan taken out in September 1989.......

I nearly fell over. Up to that point, I had never had a single letter, or any contact from them, then out of the blue I get a demand to pay back a sum within 7 days, for something dating back to 1989 !!! Almost 20 years ago???

I did claim unemployment benefit for a period back then when I was between jobs. However I have no recollection of what, how long, and certainly no Social Fund Loan, although I accept it was possible. I sincerely doubt it was called a social fund loan in those days .

I told the bloke all this, and said as far as I was concerned if anything like that had been given to me, then it had been paid off at the time, probably from my future benefit cheques. In view of the fact it was over 19 years ago, I asked him to send me full details of exactly what was owed, when it was borrowed etc etc.

He refused! He said .. " it's not down to us to prove you owe us the money, it's down to you to prove you don't .... "

Again I nearly fell over. Almost 20 years on they send me a demand for money, and refuse to provide full details on what it related to??

To me it seems entirely unreasonable, and quite ridiculous for me to have to prove something which they won't give me any details of, and how on earth can I reasonably be expected to have kept records / bank statements etc going back to 1989 anyway ?!

I believe it's highly unlikely the money is still owed, but if it is I will repay it ( although I still can't understand how they can suddenly find it, and chased it after 20 years! ).

So what should I do. I got another letter today saying it will be passed to their Enforcement Section, and that I will incur further costs, civil proceedings and adverse credit ratings.

Can they really demand a payment for something which is over 19 years old, without providing any details?

Why have they never contacted me in the previous 19 years?

Can they really reasonably expect me to provide proof of bank records etc almost 20 years later?

Any thoughts?

Many thanks for reading, and sorry to go on, just trying to get it all down.

Cheers!

GlasweJen

i don't know but i hope it gets sorted.

munchings-n-crunchings

Hello,

I would make an appointment with the CAB.
My initial thought would be to write a letter asking them to provide you with a copy of the receipt that you signed for the money, and say that when you receive this, you will make payment. You are not going to get any sort of social fund money without signing for it, and I think without your signature, they will find it difficult to progress further.
But go to CAB or Welfare Rights part of your county council.

Hope you get it sorted,

Munchie

richard9991

munchings-n-crunchings wrote: »

Hello,

I would make an appointment with the CAB.
My initial thought would be to write a letter asking them to provide you with a copy of the receipt that you signed for the money, and say that when you receive this, you will make payment. You are not going to get any sort of social fund money without signing for it, and I think without your signature, they will find it difficult to progress further.
But go to CAB or Welfare Rights part of your county council.

Hope you get it sorted,

Munchie

if it was paid they will have signiture on the giro as that is how social fund payments were payed prior to bacs

[Deleted User]

It seems to me from this and a number of other post in recent weeks the the dwp are trawling through the books looking for old debts and taking action to recover them.20 years is a long time ago and its possible that you did have some type of loan from them which was being decuted from your benefits,then you came off benefits and they didnt chase up the outstanding amount at the time?
TBH for £71 i`d just pay it before it incurs more cost for you,if this was any other type of debt it would of course be statute barred after 6 years,sad to say that with the social this rule doesnt apply

helly12

you need to write stating you do not acknowledge this alleged debt and ask them to provide proof of the overpayment. DWP cannot take you to court to recover the money as it is statute bared. However, they can deduct it from any future benefit as they do not require court action to do this.

You can write to DWP enclosing £10 for a subject access request for all information held to establish whether an overpayment can be proved and clarify the amount. someone i know had a similar letter for £50 which then turned into 2000 :eek: , but they overpayment counld not be established.

[Deleted User]

helly12 wrote: »

you need to write stating you do not acknowledge this alleged debt and ask them to provide proof of the overpayment. DWP cannot take you to court to recover the money as it is statute bared. However, they can deduct it from any future benefit as they do not require court action to do this.

You can write to DWP enclosing £10 for a subject access request for all information held to establish whether an overpayment can be proved and clarify the amount. someone i know had a similar letter for £50 which then turned into 2000 :eek: , but they overpayment counld not be established.

As i stated in my previous post debts to the dwp cannot be statute barred

sammyjammy

This letter will have come from a new part of DWP dealing with debt recovery, it is reasonably new so yes they will be requesting payment of unpaid loans from some time back, it has been set up to recover billions of pounds worth of unpaid loans/fines etc, as has been said there is no time barred situation with government funded benefits, quite right too.

Fran

The Crisis and Budgeting Loans were in existence in 1989 according to this site. Another site says:

The Budgeting Loan scheme was set up in 1988,

Presumably you can remember if you had either of these as you would have been desparate for money for some reason to consider it?

Has this definitely come from the Social Fund (ie did you ring a number for your local Social Fund or what was given to you on the letter)?

As suggested definitely get proper advice from Citizens Advice or Community Legal Advice. It seems crazy that they can demand money without showing you evidence that you owe it, maybe they can't? I would not pay anything until you have proof of owing and have advice.

helly12

woodbine wrote: »

As i stated in my previous post debts to the dwp cannot be statute barred

I am sorry that is incorrect. DWP cannot take court action to enforce recovery if 6 year have elapsed after the final descion to recover of or last acknowledgment of the overpayment, but as previously stated they can recover from future benefits (including when you are of pensionable age) as they do not have to seek court authorisation for this.

Obviously if the overpayment can be proved then it should be paid.

[Deleted User]

helly12 wrote: »

I am sorry that is incorrect. DWP cannot take court action to enforce recovery if 6 year have elapsed after the final descion to recover of or last acknowledgment of the overpayment, but as previously stated they can recover from future benefits (including when you are of pensionable age) as they do not have to seek court authorisation for this.

Obviously if the overpayment can be proved then it should be paid.

There have been many discussions about this on this forum in recent months and the consensus of opinion is that they cant be statute barred