Mass Verbal Warning

Belair

Bumping.
I should really have posted a new thread I think.

Mark7799

Who knows?

I suppose the same principle would apply to something forwarded on by email (although many companies now have policies to cover this)

daveboy

I thought companies had to have a proper disciplinary procedure before adding something to an employees record.

I know where I work, an investigation is done first before a decision is taken to go further with a disciplinary hearing.

I would have thought, legally, that all companies had to have a formal procedure and couldn't just do it ad hoc.

hex2

Have they been issued with written confirmation of the verbal warning? If there was no formal process then it can only be an informal verbal - a manager trying to beef up a slap on the wrist?

Does not count for anything if this was the case. If it was a formal verbal then they have the right of appeal and should do so. The company is right to say that they can potentially fairly dismiss for racial harassment if it is listed as gross misconduct in their policy but only if they follow a fair procedure. They do not have to prove the truth, they can make a judgement based on the facts to hand at the investigation/disciplinary. Balance of belief is how it is usually described. Equally it is potentially (legally speaking) fair to discipline everybody if they can not establish who was at fault.

Pity the poor employer. If someone makes a complaint then they have to investigate it. If they get it wrong then the consequences can be ridiculously expensive. Can you blame then for erring on the side of political correctness? However silly it may seem to you or I there is a person out there who genuinely believes he has been victimised, whether that was the reality of the situation or not. It is the same with harassment or greviance situations, whatever the reality is, there is someone who genuinely believes that they are a victim. The hard job is sifting through the information and deciding who on balance of belief is right.

hex2

Belair wrote:

I gave written joke to a colleague of mine, I knew that she would enjoy it. However, she passed to to a second person, who in turn, passed it to a third.
This third person claims to be very offended and has made an offical complaint. Will we all be in trouble or just me?
It is me that she has made the complaint against as she saw me pass the joke.

Was it potentially racist, sexist etc?
Is there a formal IT policy?
Have you ever been told about it?
Have you signed a copy?
Regardless of this is it standard custom and practice to send these things?
Does your manager/senior manager send any jokes, or similar jokes?

If you do get called in use these things. Say you didn't know, that everyone does it, that you never intended it to be passed on, that you had no intention of offending anybody. Apologise - and say that you will never do it again. Should get away with a warning unless you have sent a racist joke within a highly monitored IT system where you have signed the policy.

Hope this helps.

jobbingmusician

Belair, the answer is that you could be held responsible. If you work for that kind of company (very politically correct) you have to be very very careful not to pass any jokes of that kind.

However, in your situation, in the very unlikely event that they do anything about it, I would argue that you passed a note to a friend IN A BREAK (i.e. not in work time) and that this was an interaction between 2 friends in your own time totally unrelated to work. Unless your equal opportunities policy is EXTREMELY strict, they won't be able to prove anything against you, then.

Any probs, post on here with a copy of the relevant bit of the policy and we'll try to help. But it is very unlikely that a company policy would cover personal interactions, even on co. premises, in your own time.

Belair

The joke was not passed electronically, it was on a piece of paper. I can't remember if I was on a break or not, I will ask the others.
The person complaining is known thoughout the company for swinging the system. That said, the joke is about 2 priests, so I guess I am in for it. I admit to being guilty, but as mentioned before, everyone does it, but rather more openly than how I did. I'm classed as management so she is hoping I fall hard.

Savvy_Sue

Most it should be, IMO, is a verbal warning unless it was a very offensive joke about two priests! And there has to be an investigation, and a hearing, and you can take someone along for moral support (someone from union?) I had to 'do' one of my team once, not a fun thing as she had no real recollection of what she'd said and no intention to offend.

But I'm not sure - without knowing the joke, which i'm not asking you to post - what you've offended against? Was it racist? sexist? homophobic? Or just plain unfunny to a practising Catholic?

jobbingmusician

Belair wrote:

The joke was not passed electronically, it was on a piece of paper. I can't remember if I was on a break or not, I will ask the others.

It doesn't matter if the joke was passed electronically or not (in fact, I'd assumed it was a piece of paper - old fashioned or what!) EXCEPT for the following reasons.

1. They can't get you for misuse of company computers if it was not :T

2. They would have GREAT difficulty in proving the time when you passed the joke. When you say 'I will ask the others' - I wouldn't!!! (Which others? I thought only your friend was involved in the initial passing of the joke??) I would REMIND your friend (cos you originally said that you passed it to her) that you passed it to her in a break time, at a time when you considered the interaction between the 2 of you to be a personal interaction and in no way work related!

Belair

Savvy_Sue wrote:

unless it was a very offensive joke about two priests

Groan......You got it.