Mass Verbal Warning

Dora_the_Explorer_5

This can be difficult nor not depending on which way you look at it. If someone called someone else senile in the presence of someone who had just been diagnosed with senile dementia it doesn't take much to imagine how that person would feel.

Symbeaux1

I've been on the diversity courses (they are compulsary) and all I can say is that unless there was actually a primate in the room at the time of the incident, then there has not actually been an offence committed. What would have happened if the noises made had been that of an elephant ??

KK

My local theatre/cinema put out a leaflet recently for a gypsy band which said 'the only time you'll want a thousand gypsies on your doorstep' - shocking or what? Can't believe they got away with it!

I work for my local council and you have to be so PC about everything, but we do have a laugh about the ridiculous names (and spellings) people call their children - it can seem as if a daft name is a prerequisite for social services involvement. Now that is very naughty of me, but the cases you deal with can be so grim that you have to find humour in the situation.

I would be very upset if there was a record on my personnel file that I was involved in a 'racial incident' particularly if it was a mistake. I think I'd have to really fight my case.

I was wrongly accused of something at work last summer (watching the news on the TV on July 7th) - I briefly (a few minutes at most) stopped to see what was happening (who wouldn't?!) particularly as my partner was in London that day and I couldn't get hold of him and was 'caught' by a manager who implied that I can't have been very busy. As the TV was in reception and I walked through it many times that day to get to other parts of the building, it was natural to glance at the screen. When a disaster like that happens are you meant to ignore it until 5.30? I was shocked at the manager's comment, but forgot about it until they apologised a few days later for being harsh on me. I was then horrified to have the 'incident' brought up at supervision with my manager and have to discuss it all over again. I explained the situation and the subsequent apology and said that I was worried about my partner and that there were people we worked with in London that day and also that as I was driving to work that morning it was being described as a mass electrical failure. I realise my manager had to follow up a complaint about me, but felt that the other manager (who I get on fine with!) had been vicious to complain to my manager about it. It of course went down on my supervision record. My main argument was that the TV which wasn't normally in reception had surely been put there to keep the staff informed. It still makes me boil 7 months later.

Edna_Bucket_2

Becles wrote:

...However a new employee from an ethnic minority overheard the monkey noises and wrongly assumed they were taking the mickey out of him so he put in a complaint about racial abuse.

The group who made the monkey noises were all called into the office yesterday and given a mass verbal warning for racial abuse. They've been told if anyone is heard making further monkey noises, they will be instantly dismissed.

Can the group do anything about this? It's unfair to have a warning on your employment record for something you didn't do.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think it is possible to give a "mass verbal warning" in the disciplinary process - by the very nature of it, any disciplinary procedure has to be individual.

The manager concerned may just have chosen the words poorly, but he/she has actually just grossly infringed the group's employment rights as individuals.

Even if you issue a verbal warning accurately (which this wasn't) you simply cannot then dismiss anyone on the next occasion. The recommended procedure is supposed to be a four stage process:

1. Verbal Warning

2. 1st Written Warning

3. Final Written Warning

4. Dismissal

The people concerned here should have been consulted individually, allowed to give their side of the story, and then a decision taken.

superscotsman

Correct me if I am wrong, but you can lose your job over this. In a court of law proof is required to get a conviction - despite a desperate attempt by the present government to reverse this. But at work, they need only suspect you of something to give you the boot.

Those workmates got off lightly in my opinion. They are lucky the boss didn't call in the RSPCA; then the brown stuff would have really hit the fan.

ceegee

Some people are too quick to take offence, even where none was intended. If we put our minds to it I'm sure it wouldn't take too long for each of us to come up with many ocassions where we could have "chosen" to take offence, but where common sense dictated that it would be best to just let it go, or to realise that no offence was intended. There are some right touchy people around, IMHO.

freebie_junkie

KK wrote:

My local theatre/cinema put out a leaflet recently for a Gypsy band which said 'the only time you'll want a thousand Gypsies on your doorstep' - shocking or what? Can't believe they got away with it!

bloody hell! thats where it gets not funny at all! :eek:

Tondella

jobbingmusician wrote:

I would not stand for having a verbal warning on my file for something I didn't do. After all, it could affect a reference for another job! I suggest the 'perpetrators' take out a mass grievance against the manager who came up with this crazy idea.

The friend and his friends caused offence to another individual. They clearly must have offended this guy or else he would not have complained. Intent to cause offence doesn't come into it. And a verbal warning for this incident isn't the crazy idea of the manager, but correct employment procedure. I have never been asked to list verbal (or even written) warnings in any jobs I have applied for however I suppose that the manager would be able to make reference to the incident in their reference, if they chose to. I would imagine that in most cases any sensible manager would see the incident as a one off, high jinks gone wrong, accept the explanation and take into account any apology to the individual concerned and weigh that in their mind when deciding whether to make reference to it again.

Boomdocker

Hiya, I work in HR and agree with the comments that say it is how the action is percieved by the person making the complaint. It doesnt even need intent or to be directed at them, a comment over heard, a joke as they walk passd can fall under offensive or unwanted banter etc. It can be very complex. However, it may be worth checking the rules at the place of work as they may differ from company to company. For example where I work the person who had a complaint should raise it, both parties would be investigated either formally or informally depending on whats appropriate for the allegded action and also the desired outcome of the complainant. I have never heard of a mass warning. (Id be checking the appeals process now). If this was us the complainant would have to name the colleagues who had offended and they would be individually investigated and any action taken from there. (Id be asking how a decision to issue a warning was given with no investigation or disciplinary hearing, to me that is taking the complainants complaint as fact, it should be taken seriously but both parties should have a chance to speak. Where you entitled to representation, were you offered it etc)

Regarding the dismssal part, yes at work the onus is on reason to believe that an action took place as opposed to a burden of proof. If serious enough it can lead to dismissal for gross misconduct or a level of warning deemed appropriate.

It sure is a minefield but I would recommend that you become familiar with your own workplace policy and see where you stand in case you are ever the victim of any action or indeed accused of any offence. In either case your HR department is there to advise you.

Edna_Bucket_2

Boomdocker wrote:

Hiya, I work in HR and agree with the comments that say it is how the action is percieved by the person making the complaint. It doesnt even need intent or to be directed at them, a comment over heard, a joke as they walk passd can fall under offensive or unwanted banter etc. It can be very complex...

OK - that's fair enough boomdocker.

Let's pick up this idea of "perception" and try and walk in the shoes of individual members of the group described.

For the sake of argument then. Let's say you are one of those people - having a harmless piece of horseplay, and entirely unconnected or related, and of no concern to someone you don't know in the same general vicinity.

Without even speaking to you or discussing it, that person makes a complaint that could jeopardise your livelihood and future.

Here comes the controversial bit, but I don't think on such a serious matter we should avoid it - that person makes a complaint because of your skin colour not his. That's the fact isn't it? If the group had made the alleged noise and had been a multi-cultural/multi-ethnic group surely the issue would not have arisen?

So, who is the racist?

Personally, and this is not "advice", if I were an individual and the background was genuinely as the OP describes, I would be grossly offended by that assertion by a stranger. I would certainly file a written complaint of racism against the original complainant with the company, and against the manager for my appalling treatment at his hands - some might say his ineptitude might almost constitute gross misconduct and warrant immediate dismissal.

Yep - it sure is a minefield!