It's official - BTL destroys communities

Kenny4315

ad44downey wrote: »

No suprise there then. BTL chancers should be taxed till the pips squeak. These greedy swine are depriving hardworking people of the chance of owning their own home

Boule OCKS !

Dithering_Dad

The economic climate is far different now that it was in the 70s. We no longer have whole communities who live close to factories or mills who work together and live side by side. I remember when I was a nipper, half the street worked at the same factory and I had several surrogate mums and dads (well, Uncles and Aunties), where you'd walk in the back door, shout hello 'Auntie Dorothy' and get fed or watered.

Nowadays people work all over the place, often quite far away from where they live. Their employment has little in common with that of their neighbours, people are working much longer and have much longer commutes and basically there is little time during the week to socialise with neighbours.

At the weekend, as most people have cars these days, they're more likely to drive long distances to leisure complexes ratehr than sticking to local parks and attractions.

Also, children are now allowed to go to a school of their choice, not necessarily local ones. This results in further reducing the time busy parents spend at home as they drive the kids to school and it also means that children will often get driven to see their school friends (on both evenings and weekends) rather than to stay in the local area and associate with local kids.

I'd suggest that there are far more variables in the creation of a 'rootless society' than merely people renting houses rather than owning them. It's a bit of poor research indeed that only focusses on, perhaps, 2% of the root cause.

Kenny4315

Society has become 'lonely' because now there is less need to meet the neighbours, go shopping, go to the bank, chat with someone next door, if you want to blame anything blame technolgy, the internet, TV, mobile phones, etc, these are the reasons why face to face contact has been removed, not BTL, that is simply just plain wrong.

Most folk in Italy for example, rent rather than buy, and no more evident is the example that people just chat with each other all the time, I could go any place in Italy and easily enter into a conversation about stuff with a stranger, while it is much more difficult in the UK, the British are naturally also more reserved and don't enter easily into conversations with others.

JonnyBravo

Interesting but your title is misleading.

IMO it's not the fact that people are in BTL that makes for a lonelier existence. It is the effort people put in to the relationships with their neighbours.

I'm sure we'd agree that our local society is much more fluid than it has ever been. How many people really have jobs for life anymore? That would tend to suggest people move around more.
Whether people view the required effort as a stretch too far or simply a waste of time knowing they will be moving again due to their job is not quantified in the report.
We work longer hours than in recent history and so again it may simply down down to the lack of available time.

eg

whathavewedone wrote: »

I bought a flat in London in 2002 - it was a new development, some people owned and some people rented. I barely spoke to any of my neighbours when I lived there. I didn't feel the need to tbh. I used to get home from work late most nights and if I didn't I was happy to come in close the door and watch Corrie.

JonnyBravo

ad44downey wrote: »

No suprise there then. BTL chancers should be taxed till the pips squeak. These greedy swine are depriving hardworking people of the chance of owning their own home

Such insight.

Thrugelmir

Every region in the UK, broadly defined by a BBC local radio areas, has seen its communities become less rooted.

This article has no direct relevance to BLT.

tyllwyd

Thinking again about it - we live in a small market down very close to the M4, and which includes several very large new build estates. We started off living on a new build estate, and found that even though people owned their homes, they tended to come and go (sales jobs, armed forces) so we'd get to know someone and six months later they'd be off again. When we moved off the estate to areas with older houses that we found that our neighbours were older people/families with children at school, and people stayed around for longer so there's a much better community feeling in the road (of typical 1930s houses) where we live now than in the estate.

ALIBOBSY

I would think the big difference between the seventies and now is less about BTL and more about social changes. I was born in 71 and my mum finished work when 6 months pregnant. The reality was most wives stayed home with the kids whilst husbands went to work. The wives being at home during the day would naturally get to know each other, this would lead to socialising and the whole neighbourhood knowing each other. You have to talk and get to know each other for a community to form.

When hubby and I were working full time (when we first lived together and until our first child) we didn't know our neighbours that well.

Maybe its a north south thing as well (perhaps thats a house price side effect). I live in the northwest in a rural village on the edge of a small town. I would say for 90% of the mums I speak to the oh is the main "breadwinner". Most either don't work or work part time. But even 12 months ago you could get a decent 3 bed semi for around 160k. We bought ours in 99 for 45k. If you are only servicing a sub 100k loan life becomes alot easier.

We couldn't have the life we lead in the south, just couldn't afford it. Oh would get more income, but not enough to cover the increase in cost of living.

For example we went out for sunday lunch at weekend to a local pub, now they do, do a cheap carvery. But even so we fed 5 of us ( 2 adults, 3 kids) including 3 puddings and drinks for £29.

ali x

PS I just thought I suppose indirectly because BTL has pushed up prices it has contributed to both parents having to work more particularly in higher priced areas.

Really2

tyllwyd wrote: »

Thinking again about it - we live in a small market down very close to the M4, and which includes several very large new build estates. We started off living on a new build estate, and found that even though people owned their homes, they tended to come and go (sales jobs, armed forces) so we'd get to know someone and six months later they'd be off again. When we moved off the estate to areas with older houses that we found that our neighbours were older people/families with children at school, and people stayed around for longer so there's a much better community feeling in the road where we live now than in the estate.

Depends on the town I lived in a old market town where the average age was 55.
Moved to a newer town 10 miles away as we have a small child and this town as more younger familys which is much more comunity based.

Sir_Humphrey

The key thing about BTL is the transience of people owing to insecurity of tenure. In the old council housing, people had security of tenure and often stayed where they were. For example, my Grandma has lived in the same (now-ex) council house since the mid-1950s (she RTB'ed in about 1980-ish), and has had the same next-door neighbour for the same period of time. There is a very strong sense of community on the the estate, with people helping each other out etc.