Deed of trust - do I need a solicitor?

ElectricSoup

Hi,
My partner & I are in the process of buying our first property. We'd like a Deed of Trust drawn up and have been quoted £275+ VAT by a solicitor. I've seen downloadable Deeds of Trust on the web in the region of £25 & was wondering if anyone knows whether you need to have a solicitor to draw one up? Are the downloadable ones okay? Our division in the property is percentage only (straightforward!) & we'd like to have the right of first refusal to buy the other out.
Any advice appreciated - thanks,
ES

poppysarah

25 now and £10k in court to sort out the problems?

You would presumably get some professional advice and assistance in making sure the deed of trust does what you think it would, for the £275. Ask whether there's a discount if they conveyance for you too.

ElectricSoup

It just seems a lot of cash for a piece to paper to say "she gets 45% & he gets 55% of what's let over after they pay the mortgage after they sell" plus having right of first refusal. I appreciate its pennies compared to the property itself, though.
I wondered if its like a Will, where you can pay a lot to get one drawn up for you, but if your situation is fairly simple you can get a perfectly good do-it-yourself version.
I want to have the agreement in place, just looking for the most cost effective way to do it.

poppysarah

Speak to several and get quotes. Ask if there's any discount.

Richard_Webster

"she gets 45% & he gets 55% of what's let over after they pay the mortgage after they sell"

Well, if you think you can draw something up that says just that, go ahead. If there is an argument the courts will look at what was agreed between you so essentially any kind of written agreement will do, as long as it is clear.

You also have to think through the implications of what you are doing - imagining all kinds of scenarios in terms of property value increases and decreases and seeing if the figures still look fair, applying your formula. Also how are you going to pay the mortgage between you? Will that be 55/45? If not, it will scew the figures later as if it is 50/50 then the one who is to get 45% will try to say that as he was paid 50% of the mortgage for Z years he should get more than 45%. Obviously if there is clear agreement he can't say that, but you both need to have consciously considered and discounted that factor as important in your calculations.

What if there is negative equity - will that be split 55/45?

You must also understand that having an agreement is far better than not having one, but even with an agreement/deed of trust there can still be arguments. It could still cost a thousand or two to go to court to make the other person sign to sell if they don't want to (if you go to court you can only ask for a sale order), so the one who really wants the deal may end up accepting a deal that is a thousand or two down on what they think they are entitled to.

There are also all the other peripheral arguments that can come in if you are not careful. "You owe me because you haven't paid anything on the mortgage for X months..." "Yes, but I paid for the holiday and we agreed that I wouldn't have to pay for the mortgage for a time..." "No, we didn't..." etc, etc.

When I do a deed of trust for clients some of the cost is taken up in explaining what the deed does not do, so there can be no impression that it is a magic panacea that will sort out all problems and will magically cause a recalcitrant person to do what is expected of them on recitation of the words: "It says in the Trust Deed..."

Law doesn't work like that. You have to go to court to enforce things as a bottom line and that costs. The threat of court is an argument that often causes people to do what is required, but not always.

ElectricSoup

Thanks for the replies. I think we're going to do a little more research & get some quotes. May still consider checking out the online DIY version further. es

BlackButterfly737

When I got a Deed of Trust I used a solicitor and it was registered against the Title to the property with the Land Registry. That is what my solicitor done when I needed one.

GDB2222

I think what Richard is saying is that the document does not matter as much as the advice.

I do not see why the document needs to be in the form of a deed, and I think he is saying that too - just an agreement letter will do.

I suspect that what you download from the interweb for £25 is expensive for what it is, and the cost of the solicitor is cheap for what he/she does.

Richard_Webster

GDB2222 wrote: »

I think what Richard is saying is that the document does not matter as much as the advice.

I do not see why the document needs to be in the form of a deed, and I think he is saying that too - just an agreement letter will do.

I suspect that what you download from the interweb for £25 is expensive for what it is, and the cost of the solicitor is cheap for what he/she does.

Yes.

Also the danger with a cheap agreement and no advice is that there is always the possibility later of one or the other saying: "I didn't realise that if X happened it would mean that...." Lack of understanding can make people obstinate, and even if the legal advice would be that the agreement has a particular meaning, the other one may not sign etc "because it's unfair and I didn't realise it meant that..."

This just causes grief and costs a lot to sort out.

kunekune

It does have to be in writing, though, as the agreement creates an express trust of land. While an oral agreement can be the basis of a claim based on constructive trust, that would involve a lot of hassle and expense. You don't want to do that. As Richard says, it's MUCH better to spend a little money and do it properly, it will potentially save a lot of money later.

mojito

I instructed our conveyancers to do a deed of trust, he didn't seem to think that I could get the following points in place and it seemed very basic just the percentage only stated in the deed - which I am thinking that might be like the 25 pound one (and that states a right to first refusal)

1) What happens on death ?



2) If either of us ever neglected the mortgage payments forcing the other to pay more then this could be offered up in the final tally.



3) Right of first refusal in the event of a forced sale - ie that the other partner can buy out the others share.

So I have tried to do the right thing and I seem to have been issued with a very cookie cutter deed in my untrained eyes.

I would like to ask if anyone here bought the online one, like the original thread starter says we just need some simple stuff IF we cant get the more complicated requests or clarifications in place then why not the cheap one- the expensive one also looks the same.