Unenforceable Credit Agreements

Paul_Herring

rog2 wrote:

The 'debt' and any reference to it, including any default registered can only remain on the credit file for six years - whether the 'debt' has been paid off or not.

Agreed, but it might as well be forever - 6 years is a long time to not get accepted for credit.

dunstonh

If you look at many of the claims sites, the misinformation they give on unenforceable vs written off is amazing. You see many claiming that debts made unenforceable improve your credit rating as they are removed from your credit file. The way the terms "written off" and "unenforceable" are used seem to be very poor as well. There is an assumption that the debt will be written off because its made unenforceable and whilst that has happened on some occasions it does not happen on most.

I know the OFT and consumer groups have issued warnings about the number of false claims being made by many claims companies but surely its about time that the MoJ took some action.

The 'debt' and any reference to it, including any default registered can only remain on the credit file for six years - whether the 'debt' has been paid off or not.

If the period of the debt is for longer than 6 years, then isnt it 6 years from the expiry of the date of redemption? obviously not applicable to credit cards but for loans it could be. e.g. 15 year loan, made unenforceable after the 5th year. The 6 years starts at the end of the remaining 10 years making it appear as bad debt for 16 years as the lender can leave it on there as showing in arrears for the whole remaining 10 year term. (?)

rog2

dunstonh wrote: »

If the period of the debt is for longer than 6 years, then isnt it 6 years from the expiry of the date of redemption? obviously not applicable to credit cards but for loans it could be. e.g. 15 year loan, made unenforceable after the 5th year. The 6 years starts at the end of the remaining 10 years making it appear as bad debt for 16 years as the lender can leave it on there as showing in arrears for the whole remaining 10 year term. (?)

I don't want to give the impression that I, in any way, support the claims or activities of these so called 'Debt Write Off' Companies, and I agree that it is, indeed, time that the Ministry of Justice took decisive action to curb their activities. They are giving (well not exactly 'giving' since they charge for their 'services') many debtors false hope. They are, in my opinion, scavengers who are preying on the vulnerability of uninformed debtors and are little short of scum.

To clarify my reference to the amount of time that the 'debt' will remain on a detor's credit file - it will be six years from the date of 'default'.

rog2

Paul_Herring wrote: »

Agreed, but it might as well be forever - 6 years is a long time to not get accepted for credit.

I've got almost three years to go before my crf is 'clean'. You are right in that it is a long time, but it is not 'forever' and you can, as I have discovered, live without credit.

Rallydriver

Whats to stop these companies that are taking a big up front fee from suddenly being liquidated with all the assets moved abroad?
Or, if the first cases go through the courts and it becomes clear exactly what will happen, like say it does get counted as defaulting on your credit record, will they refund most of their customers or will they find a way out in their contracts?

dunstonh

Whats to stop these companies that are taking a big up front fee from suddenly being liquidated with all the assets moved abroad?

Some of them are based abroad but have PO boxes or virtual offices in the UK. One particularly dodgy claims company called Morgan Green (plenty of references in the pensions section of the board) were based in Spain, took up front money on cases with virtually no chance of success. Noted we hadnt heard from them in a while and I see that they are no longer authorised under CMR and went into liquidation in December.

cheekymonkey20

My Original letter to them

Re: Account No:

With reference to the above account, I would be grateful for a signed copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of this agreement upon request. I therefore enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

What i recieved back

Second letter to them

30th April 2009
Dear Sir / Madam
Account Ref No
Re: My request under s77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

My request for a copy of my properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement remains outstanding.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter 16th March 2009. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into a disputed status.

My request remains outstanding as I have not received the requested original signed CCA agreement!

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until 30th April 2009 to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you enter into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. You entered into a default on 30th March 2009 and subsequently committed a criminal offence on 30 April 2009.

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

To sum up, although I will not be required to make any further payments to you until you provide me with the signed document I have requested, as a good will gesture I will continue to make the minimum payments, showing that at least I can hold up my end of the contract. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

What i recieved back

Unsure what to do now! Any ideas???

PROLIANT

Pay the credit card bill?

cheekymonkey20

im not gonna get into the morals of it all just want to know what to write back to them... anyone???

Paul_Herring

The debt appears to be enforceable from a quick scan of what they've sent. There doesn't appear to be much else you can write back to them with, unless it's to indicate that you're going to default on the loan.