Student being made to pay council tax- advice please!

Kavanne

Maybe the council think as his contact hours are so low he could be working? Thus paying council tax? Is this possible for your OH as he is only resitting 2 modules? And why is your house in such a high council tax band?! We are in band b and it is only £82 pm for 2009/2010 with the 25% discount (which your OH would get as he is the only 'non student' in the house)

katy1987

he really should be working- i've been pestering him! we're on easter break back home with the families right now so as soon as we get back i'll lock him out of the flat with a handful of CVs ^_^

regardless of whether he gets a job, i think he'd rather argue the council tax issue than just give up and pay it, on the grounds that he (and i) really believe he shouldn't have to!

i don't know why it's so expensive. it's a 2-bedroom flat with one main bathroom and an ensuite, open plan kitchen/living area. it is in a nice, newly-developed area (gunwharf quays, for any locals). the only reason we can afford it is because the kindly landlord let 3 of us live there, in a 2-bed.

he does get the 25% discount but yeah, it's still rather expensive! £1238.90 for a whole year. with discount. ouch. band E apparently. does that mean anything to anyone? xx

CIS

The Valuation Tribunal would be completely separate to the court action - the court effectively rules on whether you are the correct liable person whereas the VT rules on disputes over interpretation of council tax legislation - the two are separate from each other although once the Liability Order is granted by the court then recovery should be stayed whilst the dispute is dealt with.(gaining a liability order then holding action is standard practice).

You need to contact the council and advise them of your dispute and requesting them to stay action as you wish the matter to be dealt with by a VT if the matter cannot be resolved - the basic guidelines are here http://www.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/faqs/faq_19.html. The VT may take your complaint now as you have already spoken to the council but you would need to check with them (the email address is on the VT website).


I would say that he is still a F/T student in the spirit of the legislation, although with the wording of the legislation it gets difficult as under section 4b) and 4c) he would ordinarily fail the required test. The 1996 guidance note that was referred to earlier however covers students who are intercalcating and thus cannot continue the course as normal, I would say that he comes under this guidance and should be still regarded as a student.

Can you speak to anyone else at the Uni who is willing to confirm that he is still registered on a F/T course as if they would do so it would be easier than arguing it out.

I have access to the IRRV (a professional body for council tax staff) who have a forum for answering technical queries, I will make a post on there and see what the expert opinion is although it may take a few days for an answer at the moment

STUDENTS

• 2. A person is to be regarded as a foreign language assistant on a particular day if—
  • (a) on the day he is registered with the Central Bureau for Educational Visits and Exchanges as a foreign language assistant; and
  • (b) the day falls within the period of his appointment as a foreign language assistant at a school or other educational institution in Great Britain.

• 3. A person is to be regarded as undertaking a full time course of education on a particular day if—
  • (a) on the day he is enrolled for the purpose of attending such a course with a prescribed educational establishment within Part I of Schedule 2 to this Order, and
  • (b) the day falls within the relevant period for that course.

• 4.—(1) A full-time course of education is, subject to subparagraphs (2) and (3), one—
  • (a) which subsists for at least one academic year of the educational establishment concerned or, in the case of an educational establishment which does not have academic years, for at least one calendar year;
  • (b) which persons undertaking it are normally required by the educational establishment concerned to attend (whether at premises of the establishment or otherwise) for periods of at least 24 weeks in each academic or calendar year (as the case may be) during which it subsists, and
  • (c) the nature of which is such that a person undertaking it would normally require to undertake periods of study, tuition or work experience which together amount in each such academic or calendar year to an average of at least 21 hours a week during the periods of attendance mentioned in paragraph (b) above in the year.
  
  (2) In determining whether a course falls within the definition in sub-paragraph (1)—
  • (a) in applying paragraph (c) of that definition, a person is to be treated as undertaking work experience at any time if, as part of the curriculum of the course—
    • (i) he is at a place of employment of his and is providing services under his contract of employment, or
    • (ii) he is at a place where a trade, business, profession or other occupation which is relevant to the subject matter of the course is carried on, and he is there for the purposes of gaining experience of that trade, business, profession or other occupation,
  and references in sub-paragraph (3) below to periods of work experience shall be construed accordingly;
  • (b) in applying paragraphs (b) and (c) of that definition, the first calendar year shall be treated as beginning with the day on which the course begins, and subsequent calendar years (if any) as beginning on the anniversary of that day;
  • (c) in applying those paragraphs to a course which begins part-way through an academic year of the educational establishment concerned, the academic year shall be treated as beginning at the beginning of the term in which the course begins, and subsequent academic years (if any) as beginning at the beginning of the equivalent terms in those years; and
  • (d) in applying those paragraphs to a course which subsists (or is treated as subsisting) for other than a number of complete academic or calendar years (as the case may be), any last part of the course shall be disregarded.
  
  (3) A course is not to be treated as a full time course of education if the aggregate for the course as a whole of all the periods of work experience normally required to be undertaken as part of it exceeds the aggregate of all the periods of study or tuition not constituting work experience normally so required (taking account for this purpose of any period of study, tuition or work experience in a part year which, might otherwise fall to be disregarded under sub-paragraph (2)(d)).

• 5.—(1) A person is to be regarded as undertaking a qualifying course of education on a particular day only if on that day—
  • (a) he is under the age of 20,
  • (b) he is not undertaking a course of full time education within the meaning of paragraphs 3 and 4 above; and
  • (c) the relevant number of hours per week for that course, or where he is undertaking 2 or more qualifying courses with the same establishment, the aggregate of the relevant number of hours per week, exceeds 12.
  
  (2) A person is undertaking a course on a day for the purposes of sub-paragraph (1) if—
  • (a) the day falls in the relevant period for that course, and
  • (b) he is not an apprentice or a youth training trainee.
  
  (3) In relation to a qualifying course of education "the relevant number of hours per week" means the average number of hours per week a person undertaking it would normally require to spend, in the period during which the course subsists, on relevant activities within the meaning of paragraph 6 below, (excluding for the purpose of calculating that average any period of vacation).

6.—(1) In paragraph 5, a qualifying course of education means a course—

• (a) which subsists for more than 3 calendar months,

• (b) which is not a course of higher education,

• (c) with respect to which tuition is principally received otherwise than through correspon dence;

• (d) which is not undertaken in consequence of an office or employment held by the person in question, and

• (e) with respect to which the relevant activities are (insofar as they are normally carried out under the course at particular times) normally so carried out principally between 8.00 am and 5.30 pm.

(2) In sub-paragraph (1),—

• "relevant activities" means the receipt of tuition, the undertaking of supervised study or examination, and the taking part (as part of the curriculum of the course) in any supervised exercise, experiment, project or practical work;

• "course of higher education" means a course of any description mentioned in Schedule 6 to the Education Reform Act 1988[11], or a course which would be such a course if—
  • (a) a course for the Higher National Diploma or Higher National Certificate of the Scottish Vocational Education Council were included within the description of courses in paragraph 1(e) of that Schedule;
  • (b) the reference in paragraph 2 of that Schedule to examinations at advanced level for the General Certificate of Education or the examination for the National Certificate or the National Diploma of the Business and Technician Education Council included a reference to examinations at the higher grade of the Scottish Certificate of Education or the assessment for the National Certificate of the Scottish Vocational Education Council, and
  • (c) the reference in paragraph 3 of that Schedule to examinations included a reference to the examinations and assessment mentioned in paragraph (b) above.

Kavanne

katy1987 wrote: »

he does get the 25% discount but yeah, it's still rather expensive! £1238.90 for a whole year. with discount. ouch. band E apparently. does that mean anything to anyone? xx

Yeah, A is lowest. E is most expensive.

Ah yes, when I lived in a flat down in Ocean Village, Southampton (again, newly developed like Gunwharf) we were in Band D, so only one down from you. I think it's disgusting they lump the new properties into this high band but when I moved into an older flat it was 2 lower, saving me over £15 pm in the tax.

CIS

With regards to the council tax band, check your neighbours bandings on https://www.voa.gov.uk and see whether they are the same for similar properties. If they aren't then it may be worth challenging the banding with the valuation office (the council have no say over property bandings)

katy1987

ah thanks CIS. i'm just having a look through that website now.

mike's letter from the academic registry says:

"this is to confirm that the student, named above, is registered on a full time course at the university of portsmouth following the ba (hons) marketing degree course. he is repeating units on a part time basis this academic year.

"the student started the course on 02/10/06 and is expected to complete the course on 03/06/11."

is that enough to get him through this tribunal application? *hopeful grin*

CIS

The tribunal would only be needed if the dispute with the council cannot be resolved and comes down to a matter of the wording and intention of the legislation.

I would say that in-line with the practice note from 1996 (http://www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/ctax/ctil/ctil5.pdf) and the wording of the letter that he would still be a F/T student.

I've posted a general query on this sort of issue with the IRRV to see what they say on the matter.

katy1987

thanks CIS, you've been so helpful!

so our plan of action now is to send a letter to the local council tax office, which is a basic template given to us by shivster, and i'll include the practice note that you sent a link for (with relevant bits highlighted), aaand the letter will say "please stay action for the time being, since if this issue cannot be resolved i wish it to go before a valuation tribunal".

then we wait for a response, hopefully with an apology and a change of heart! if not, then we approach the tribunal. does that sound like a good course of action to take?

thank you thank you. xx

Fire_Fox

I am reading this thread with interest, as I think I will have to repeat some/ all of my second year due to intermittent illness. My complication is that, technically, the second year is my final year (foundation degree) although I do hope to go on and do the top-up year to a full honours degree.

CIS

My complication is that, technically, the second year is my final year (foundation degree) although I do hope to go on and do the top-up year to a full honours degree.

That doesn't make a difference, just ask the uni to issue a new student certificate showing the revised course dates.