Married or unmarried

Verbena_3

My daughter’s been with the same partner for around seven years. Recently they bought a house together as joint tenants.

I’ve always been fairly negative about marriage in general, mainly because it seems to involve spending colossal amounts of money. My daughter’s partner appears to share my feeling.

However, my daughter is now pregnant and I’ve been told by a couple of friends that an unmarried woman in a permanent relationship is in a far less secure position than a married woman in the same situation, should that relationship turn sour, no matter how many children she may have.

I have no reason to suppose my daughter’s partner has anything other than her best interests at heart; but things can change; and I feel a sense of duty to try and ensure she is as well protected as possible for any future eventuality.

I don’t want to apply too much pressure on them to get married; yet I find myself thinking that they should, even if only for reasons of security for my daughter, since she is not the most worldly of creatures.

Am I right to worry? How can I convey my concerns to my daughter’s partner without seeming to be interfering in something that is a private matter and maybe cause him offense? I’ve mentioned it plenty to my daughter, who I’m sure would love nothing more than to marry, but she only says her partner finds it all too much of a hassle to think of.

One problem is that I don’t know if he wants to marry but can’t face the palaver of a wedding – which I quite understand – or if he’s using that as an excuse for not doing something he doesn’t want to do anyway. He’s fairly indecisive, when it comes to big decisions. According to my daughter, he doesn’t want to be pressurised into getting married, and would like to do it for the right – ie, romantic rather than commercial – reasons; but I suspect the best time for romance is probably before rather than after the birth of children, and that if he doesn’t ‘propose’ now he never will.

I certainly don’t want to be the cause of any tension in their relationship, especially with the recent pregnancy news, so I’m at a bit of a loss to know how to approach matters. I suspect if I leave it till after the baby’s birth it might be too late.

Have any other concerned parent run into this? Or am I worrying unduly? If I thought my daughter would be as well protected in the eyes of the law unmarried as she would be married I wouldn’t give it another moment’s thought.

sparklymessygirl

Hi Verbena,

I recently saw in Asda a small paperback booklet for sale on the law for unmarried cohabitting couples. Maybe you could get that and read it (may reassure you or not, as the case may be - but at least you will have more information) and then you could always give that to your daughter.

At least her ownership of the house is protected if they are joint tenants in equity because if he dies she will be the sole owner of the house.

I think you are fabulously sensitive and would think that your daughter will be able to tell that you are not being judgmental or trying to force the issue but that you want the best for her.

Best wishes
Sparkly

calleyw

She has a bit more protection than most as she has half share in the house. A lot of woman in cohabitting couples don't have there name on anything so loose out big time even if they have children. Living together gives you no rights as a lot of people seem to have got this thing in there head about common law husband and wife. Has not existed since 1753 in this country.

Also with children there are other issues. In couples where they are unmarried there are lots of things they can't do. Like if there child needs an operation and they need someone to sign as next of kin he can't. Only your daugther can. Even though he is the father he has no rights over his own children. He is not able to make choices or decison for the children.Also fathers of children in an unmarried couples don't always have such an easy time with access etc.

See here

Getting married does not need cost anymore than just the licence as I know of a couple that got married in there lunch break had a glass of champers and then went back to work.

Personally you need to get married for the right reason and things like tax issues etc are not the right reason. You have to do because you want to. And because you feel it is the right thing for the both of you to do.

I know that to many people, marriage is just a piece of paper. But it is a piece of that gives me so many more rights than if we just lived together.

I can take half his pension, half the house, inhert all his money and goods tax free etc. But I never married for that reason I married for good old fashion love and that I wanted to show to all and sundry that I love him and was more than happy to commit the rest of my life to him.

Not that I am saying living together is not a commitment. But to some people living together is something that is done for a few months and then move on to the next. Which saddens me a lot as any relationship should be about commitment and looking long term and not short term.

Oh and by the way when I met my husband he said he would never marry again. But over time he changed. I asked him why and he said it was me that had changed his mind and he wanted to marry me. I know what a soppy sod.

Yours


Calley

Zziggi

I was with my partner for a number of years, had children then after the youngest was born we decided to get married legally in the UK. (just as a side issue, we had a religious ceremony abroad and we were married in religious terms but the UK does not accept it as a valid marriage, hence technically under Uk law we were unmarried). We never bothered to have a UK legal wedding because we thought that being legally married in UK was largely irrelevant and from a religious point of view, we considered ourselves already married.

However once the children came along my OH started to look at things differently. His name was on the birth certificates of all the children but yet he did not have parental responsability. (this was pre-law change at end of 2003). If any of our children had need medical treatment, go abroad etc etc he would not be allowed to authorise any of this without my consent. This really started to bother him and we looked into getting parental responsability. it is possible to get a form signed to get parental responsability for the father but legal marriage seemed to clear up all the problems re:pensions etc.

We got married - a simple registry office do (i think the licence cost £91). No frills, no fuss, we asked for them only to say the legal part of the ceremony and none of the fancy vows etc etc. It was all over and done in less than 5 minutes (yes really 5 minutes!!!).

Maybe once your son-in-law becomes a dad he may view things a bit differently? I never thought it mattered about being a 'partner' rather than a 'wife' however now i am married i am glad i am married as it makes things simpler (in my opinion). I didn't change my name. We definitely didn;t get married for love, we got married for practical reasons.

P.S. the law changed in 2003 so now an unmarried dad whose name is on the birth certificate now has more rights (my kids were all born before the law changed and hence our situation).

HTH

november

To be honest I don't see any difference in being unmarried or married with children in terms of security if you joint own the house.

I believe in order to register the birth of the child if you are unmarried both parents have to attend to register. As opposed to if you are married the woman can register the child alone and name the husband who is assumed to be the father. I don't think thats a big deal as most parents like to go to register the birth together anyway.

With the changes in legislation as others have said if the father goes to register the birth with the mother and is therefore named as the father he automatically gets parental responsibility so there is no problems with him being accepted as 'next of kin' for schools, NHS, etc.

I think your friends were possibly thinking of when a couple are unmarried and the man owns the house. In this case there would be issues as the woman has no rights of residence but he may have rights over the child. In these cases should there be disagreements later he could ask her to leave but would have a right to keep the child until residence was sorted out by the courts. She would equally have a right to leave and take the child providing she had somewhere to take it.

See: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family_parent/family/cohabitation_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm

for list of differences in married and cohabitating couples.

Karnam

me and my partner have a baby and although we are unmarried, he is on the birth certificate and has parental resposibility. we declare ourselves as partners for everything but i suppose its different cause we dont own anything, money/house/assets etc and we plan to get married in the next few years anyways...

anguk

My OH and I have lived together for the past 20 years, have never married and we also have 2 children. We've never come across any problems or been treat any different because we're not married, when the kids or I have ever been in hospital he's always been named as next-of-kin. I'm named as beneficiary on his pension, just as my son has named my daughter on his pension (he's only 19 & doesn't have a partner or kids) and all assets are in joint names. The only difference I can see between married & unmarried is if my husband died I wouldn't be able to claim widows pension from the DSS.

crankup

Likewise, we have 2 children but have never married. I said I would, she said she would and we left it at that. We have less than a handful of family members between us and felt that the need for a celebration was not there, amongst other things.

It takes more than a wedding licence to demonstrate a strong bond between a couple.
It sounds like its working well though for yours, what with the house shared etc.

Verbena_3

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Yes, it's good to have the house shared. I guess my major worry is that when married, a couple shares everything, but when unmarried, most things belong to either one or the other partner; and that means there's so much more scope for one party losing out if matters turn sour.

What fuels my concern is that so many of my wife and my contemporaries are splitting up. It's like an epidemic. Often after many, many years together. And the bitterness this engenders, between people who seemed the epitome of love and devotion, is scary.

I need to get hold of a book and learn as much as I can about all the implications before starting to impart advice. It does seem, though, that marriage simplifies matters enormously.

pickle

I found an article on the issue here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1670798,00.html it sounds like some moves are being made next year but nothing provides protection at the moment. I would avoid talking with them about it as they will most likely see it as interfering even though you only have your daughters best interests at heart. Besides, they probably wouldn't want to even think about any future problems right at the moment - having a baby is stressful enough. Having a child would provide more legal rights to the parent with custody I would think, the same as for a married person. The child always comes first in the legal setting. Maybe someone at the Citizens Advice Bureau could advise re legal entitlements in the event of any relationship breakdown.

stressedoutmumof1

Speaking from my own experience, hubbie and I got married when I was 6 1/2 months pregnant - mutual decision (different strokes for different folks). The treatment I received in hospital because I was a married mother was far superior to the so called "unmarried" mothers. Little did they know I had a shotgun wedding :rotfl: