Panasonic 32" Flat Widescreen CRT with stand £329.99

talkshop

Currys have announced today, that they will stop selling all CRT TV sets at the end of this year.

Very sad if this happens.

Just hope that flat panel TV's improve a lot by next year :beer:

executiverocker

CRT will make a come back as they have developed prototypes where the depth of the box is quite smaller than it is now! i prefer CRT to LCD so it would be wonderful to see it make a comeback in that format
http://news.designtechnica.com/article4751.html

bargains83

gromituk wrote:

No, it reduces the flicker by an enormous amount. It looks like you're getting mixed up with......interline twitter, which is an interlacing artifact, but completely different from large-area flicker. Doubling the scan rate will help this as well, but the large-area improvement will help all material, and be more noticeable the brighter the picture is. .

True, but I don't believe that the effects of 100Hz on a CRT TV are enough to warrant someone to turn their nose up at a set which scans at 50Hz. Refresh rate doesn't affect physical picture quality, only resolution and component quality can affect that. 100Hz is all about reducing flicker. I have seen 50Hz and 100Hz sets next to each other in currys and yes the 50Hz ones picture looks to jump up and down slightly compared to the 100Hz one but this is exaggerated because its next to the 100Hz set. (like a 32" TV looks tiny in the shop compared to when you get it home). Similarly the flicker won't be 'as bad' when you get it home.

Its also worth remembering that most electrical retailers use flourecent lighting which also runs at 50Hz meaning that the flicker will be exaggerated even further.

gromituk wrote:

Pure flat makes very little difference to picture quality, but helps with reflections and makes the set look nicer. Professional monitors would have been the first to be pure flat if it didn't cause more problems than benefits.

Again true, but I wasn't trying to say pure flat improved picture quality. I was simply highlighting the fact that when shopping for a CRT TV set, 100Hz scan should not be a high priority on your checklist when compared to going for features like the TV having a pure flat tube.

gromituk wrote:

Nicam is, unfortunately, an irrelevance except for analogue terrestrial transmissions. And NICAM is much cheaper to implement than 100Hz so I very much doubt you'll find a 100Hz set without it.

This is wrong, NICAM is still very relevant as although the name does refer to being able to recieve stereo analogue broadcasts it also means the TV has properly connected stereo speakers. Some Mono sets are actually produced with twin speakers (mainly by the cheap manufacturers) but have no Nicam decoder on board, sadly this also means a Mono amplifier and the Left and Right channels on the Scart socket are mixed together.

Yet again I was just trying to highlight the fact that when shopping for a TV NICAM is a more important feature than 100Hz Scan.

Joints

talkshop wrote:

Currys have announced today, that they will stop selling all CRT TV sets at the end of this year.

Very sad if this happens.

Just hope that flat panel TV's improve a lot by next year :beer:

I seriously think the price of CRT's could increase as a result. It's damn hard to find a nice CRT these days and LCD is not a true step forward. It's more like 1 step forward and 2 back.

gromituk

bargains83 wrote:

Refresh rate doesn't affect physical picture quality, only resolution and component quality can affect that.

What does "physical picture quality" mean? It's not a scientific term. If you mean the enjoyment of the experience of watching TV, then I much prefer watching a picture without large-area flicker. I agree that if this causes nasty motion artifacts or whatever, then it's not a good thing.

And your list is far from exhaustive: what about geometrical problems, or gamma, for instance?

I have seen 50Hz and 100Hz sets next to each other in currys and yes the 50Hz ones picture looks to jump up and down slightly compared to the 100Hz one but this is exaggerated because its next to the 100Hz set. (like a 32" TV looks tiny in the shop compared to when you get it home). Similarly the flicker won't be 'as bad' when you get it home.

It will be worse, because you are likely to be nearer the screen. It is your peripheral vision which notices to flicker, which is why bigger screens tend to give more problems, because they tend to fill your field of view more. The ambient lighting is also likely to be lower than in Curry's, again emphasising the effect.

Oh, and 50Hz tellies shriek at a frequency audible to most.

Its also worth remembering that most electrical retailers use flourecent lighting which also runs at 50Hz meaning that the flicker will be exaggerated even further.

Most professional fluorescent lighting these days is high frequency, so will not contain a significant 50Hz component.

This is wrong, NICAM is still very relevant as although the name does refer to being able to recieve stereo analogue broadcasts it also means the TV has properly connected stereo speakers. Some Mono sets are actually produced with twin speakers (mainly by the cheap manufacturers) but have no Nicam decoder on board, sadly this also means a Mono amplifier and the Left and Right channels on the Scart socket are mixed together.

It is not wrong at all - you are talking about one thing and calling it another. I understand the point you are trying to make, but a set cannot call itself stereo if it only has mono output, regardless of the number of speakers it has. So your advice should be to look for stereo, not NICAM. Someone following your advice would avoid a stereo television without NICAM even if they never use it to receive analogue terrestrial signals.

Yet again I was just trying to highlight the fact that when shopping for a TV NICAM is a more important feature than 100Hz Scan.

No, what you mean is that stereo is important. And have you ever seen a mono 100Hz TV? What you might have a choice of is a Dolby decoder/surround sound. You're bound to get stereo.

riker71

gromituk wrote:

No, but that's not the argument. The argument is whether or not you will ever get an acceptable picture if you do not have 100Hz on a 32" TV. I would be inclined to say that you won't.

Excuse me but I wont be told what the argument is, its clear from your rather long winded and laborious if not informative posts that YOUR argument is with anyone who says 100hz is not a major issue. We will simply have to agree to disagree

interline twitter, which is an interlacing artifact, but completely different from large-area flicker. Doubling the scan rate will help this as well, but the large-area improvement will help all material, and be more noticeable the brighter the picture is.

come again? Explain what an interlacing artefact is? Hmm on second thoughts, perhaps thats not such a good idea. Does anyone actually give a damn about Interline Twitter> apart from you? I doubt it. If you are going to start a pompous eggheaded technical argument to try to explain your point, perhaps the mods can create a separate thread as it has become way off topic or go and bleat on AV Forums - Picture quality is extremely subjective. Some TV reviews get 5 stars from one mag for pic quality, others give 2 for same model. People should not be put off by a 50hz 32" TV, rather read reviews in mags and online, if still concerned or curious go in and have a look (currys/comet/dixons where available etc), if you like what you see, get it. Oh and Ive not heard any TV audibly shrieking, ever.

bargains83

I am not going into this any further, GromitUK not only seems to want to argue about 100Hz but also the irrelevant ins and outs of other features. I feel I have already posted valid points and my intention was to make out that 100Hz is by no means the most important feature to look for on a CRT TV which Im sure most people agree with.

The TV here does appear to be a genuine bargain and if you are in the market for a new 32" Set then you should go for it. I have a 28" 50Hz Panasonic IDTV sat in the corner of my bedroom and I can proudly say I am extremely happy with the picture quality on it and don't notice any flicker.

I am not saying 50Hz is better than 100Hz or vice versa, they both have their Pro's and Con's. My own personal feeling is by paying extra for a 100Hz set is that the extra expense isn't justified and you may end up with lip sync problems and inacurate frame rates on slow moving images.

I can only echo riker71's advice above, read the reviews, go into stores and look for yourself.

kmkmkm

I have never noticed flicker on any of my 50hz TV's.

talkshop

kmkmkm wrote:

I have never noticed flicker on any of my 50hz TV's.

It's only noticeable on 32inch or above CRT.

I have a 20inch Sony CRT 50Hz widescreen in the main bedroom and cannot see any flicker.

I also have a 100Hz Philips 32inch Pixel Plus CRT TV.

The 50Hz Sony picture is just as good as my large Philips 100Hz TV.

kmkmkm

To be honest, I doubt I would notice. But I bought the 28" Toshiba anyway.