High Pressure Coolant System/Possible Head Gasket Failure

angel00079

I was thinking about tagging this on to another thread but decided against it. I have read through some posts on head gaskets and while they raised some interesting points not really related. I didn't want to fuel the reliability of Rover debate.

I have a diesel 2002 Xsara that has done 176K. For the last six months the coolant has needed to be topped up on regular basis. I know that I should have got it checked out earlier. The other week the temperature gauge rose dramatically. Topped up but just went straight through. I took it garage yesterday and they have repaired the hose. They did say however that there is still high pressure and that was only going round the block so head gasket failure likely soon. I have used the garage for years so it is not that I think they are trying to con me. I suppose that I am hoping that the high pressure could be caused by something else that will not cost as much to repair. The more I read the less likely I think this is.

I will be getting the quote on Monday and I would appreciate any info. From the other posts I suppose that I will need to check what is being done and what parts will be replaced. I am wondering if the garage will not know until they look at the gasket or is there a test that I could ask for. They fitted me in yesterday and were very busy so I didn't ask too many questions. I suppose at the moment I am wondering if I should have the work done or cut my loses. I forked out quite a bit in November 07 on the heater matrix. The other way of thinking of it is if I have the work done and cam at the same time I might get a bit more out of it yet. The cam was done at 120k but this was before I brought it. My other reservation is that there is something that is causing the gasket to fail.

I am also wondering if I should not use the car in the meantime. The repair (if I go ahead) will have to wait until I get my student loan, LOL. At the moment I am thinking that I should probably get the bus to work on Monday.

Thanks in advance for any help.

goldspanners

for a head gasket to fail at 176k miles is hardly the end of the earth,its a good mileage especially if its never been done before.
how is the car running since they repaired the hose? does the temperature gauge sit as normal?
personally i would run it if the gauge is showing as normal. did the garage give any kind of time frame they expect the head gasket to fail?
run it and keep a close eye on your coolant and engine oil levels and condition.

Quinny_2

If it's the first head gasket at 176k,it's done bloody well on a PSA engine,however you don't say if it is the turbo or non turbo version,not that it matters.Signs of head gasket failure are water in the oil,and a mayonaise appearance in the filler cap or on the dipstick.

What you have to remember,is that it's not just the replacing of the head gasket.In light of the circumstances you describe,it's likely to need the head skimming as well,so straight away your bill is mounting.

Add on the labour on a car that's done this sort of mileage,and you could be looking at a bill of more than what the car could be worth,so you have to decide whether to pay it,or get rid of it before they do the work.

If it was me,I would certainly be thinking of replacing it,if you can afford to,before the work commences,by way of a p/x,unless you can sell it privately,and live with the fact you have sold a car that is knackered.

cyclonebri1

angel00079 wrote: »

I was thinking about tagging this on to another thread but decided against it. I have read through some posts on head gaskets and while they raised some interesting points not really related. I didn't want to fuel the reliability of Rover debate.

I have a diesel 2002 Xsara that has done 176K. For the last six months the coolant has needed to be topped up on regular basis. I know that I should have got it checked out earlier. The other week the temperature gauge rose dramatically. Topped up but just went straight through. I took it garage yesterday and they have repaired the hose. They did say however that there is still high pressure and that was only going round the block so head gasket failure likely soon. I have used the garage for years so it is not that I think they are trying to con me. I suppose that I am hoping that the high pressure could be caused by something else that will not cost as much to repair. The more I read the less likely I think this is.

I will be getting the quote on Monday and I would appreciate any info. From the other posts I suppose that I will need to check what is being done and what parts will be replaced. I am wondering if the garage will not know until they look at the gasket or is there a test that I could ask for. They fitted me in yesterday and were very busy so I didn't ask too many questions. I suppose at the moment I am wondering if I should have the work done or cut my loses. I forked out quite a bit in November 07 on the heater matrix. The other way of thinking of it is if I have the work done and cam at the same time I might get a bit more out of it yet. The cam was done at 120k but this was before I brought it. My other reservation is that there is something that is causing the gasket to fail.

I am also wondering if I should not use the car in the meantime. The repair (if I go ahead) will have to wait until I get my student loan, LOL. At the moment I am thinking that I should probably get the bus to work on Monday.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Don't worry, it's burnt out:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ok, they don't all go;)


At the mileage you are talking off it really is no big deal, moreover it's to be expected sooner or later. Some go at 40k some go at 200K, good maintenance and a bit of luck come into play.

angel00079

I have heard that a mayonaise appearance in cap can be a sign. I can't see anything like that. Unfortunately the car has not been maintained as well as it should have been. I suppose that I am lucky to have got away with it for so long. The car had high mileage when I brought it so I have got my money out of it. It's the labour that normally bumps the cost up I know. I am guessing that it will not be cheap. At the moment I am thinking that it is likely that I will get the work done and make sure that it is with the longterm in mind rather than a quick fix.

If I buy a replacement I will not have much to spend and I am not sure that I would not pick something that did not have problems that needed fixing. I doubt that I will get much with 600ish.

If I did sell it I would sell it privately but let the buyer know that there is problem with the coolant system.

MikeH99

I might be missing something, but isn't low pressure a sign of leakage - not high? Sounds to me you haven't got a problem as long as everything is tight and there's no evidence of oil / water contamination (like white foam under the oil filler cap) or visible leaks on the engine block.

The coolant system is always very high pressure ... why they always say not to remove the water filler cap when the engine is hot, cos scalding water will spray out.

How well do you really know that garage? Sounds to me like a hose failed, as they do, and he's spinning you a yarn based on the car's mileage. These are tough times in the car industry.

For peace of mind on the head gasket you could take it to another garage and ask them to do a (piston) pressure test. Shouldn't cost you much. They just take out each spark plug one at a time, screw in a pressure gauge in its place, and run the engine. Don't tell them what you've been told by the other guys - just say you don't think there's a problem but the car's getting on and you just want to check. But still you run the risk of being told what they think you're expecting to hear.

Ultimately, if you do have problem, I wouldn't repair the head gasket unless you or a mate can do it. It'll cost a fortune in labour, and by the time a car gets to that stage other serious and expensive things can also go wrong once you've shelled out on the engine. Like clutch or gearbox.

In that case it's better to get rid. If you can, find a car dealer that will offer a minimum part exchange value - typically £1,000. Of course, at all times checking the cars they have for sale are priced fairly!

Atb.

mikey72

If it's a good car otherwise think about it. Without the model it's hard to say what it would be worth repaired, £1500 to £2500 maybe.
So maybe better to cut your losses, trade it in, and change the car.

Donners_2

angel00079 wrote: »

I was thinking about tagging this on to another thread but decided against it. I have read through some posts on head gaskets and while they raised some interesting points not really related. I didn't want to fuel the reliability of Rover debate.

I have a diesel 2002 Xsara that has done 176K. For the last six months the coolant has needed to be topped up on regular basis. I know that I should have got it checked out earlier. The other week the temperature gauge rose dramatically. Topped up but just went straight through. I took it garage yesterday and they have repaired the hose. They did say however that there is still high pressure and that was only going round the block so head gasket failure likely soon. I have used the garage for years so it is not that I think they are trying to con me. I suppose that I am hoping that the high pressure could be caused by something else that will not cost as much to repair. The more I read the less likely I think this is.

I will be getting the quote on Monday and I would appreciate any info. From the other posts I suppose that I will need to check what is being done and what parts will be replaced. I am wondering if the garage will not know until they look at the gasket or is there a test that I could ask for. They fitted me in yesterday and were very busy so I didn't ask too many questions. I suppose at the moment I am wondering if I should have the work done or cut my loses. I forked out quite a bit in November 07 on the heater matrix. The other way of thinking of it is if I have the work done and cam at the same time I might get a bit more out of it yet. The cam was done at 120k but this was before I brought it. My other reservation is that there is something that is causing the gasket to fail.

I am also wondering if I should not use the car in the meantime. The repair (if I go ahead) will have to wait until I get my student loan, LOL. At the moment I am thinking that I should probably get the bus to work on Monday.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Hi

Just thought I'd add my own experiences as they sound identical to your current problem. I had a 1994 diesel Peugeot 306 XRDt with 180,000 miles; assume they would be same problems as yours. At around your mileage, I noticed that when the engine was stopped, I could hear a release of pressure from the radiator overflow pipe.

At first the thermostat housing broke (due to the increase pressure I assume), but managed to do a rolling repair. I flushed the system, continually, tried to bleed the system of air, added radweld, new radiator cap and changed the thermostat. At first the engine temperature remained fairly constant, but the heater did not work consistently and was warmish on the hottest settings at best - the majority of time it was completely cold. At no stage did I have any water in the oil that gave a mayonnaise type substance. However, I noticed on 1 occasion that coolant was being lost from the overflow pipe.

I used the vehicle for about another 4 months, but if I got stuck in traffic then the coolant temp gauge would increase, but reduce once the airflow around the radiator was restored. I took it to a local garage after extensive research on the net and they laughed at me when I highlighted it might be the head gasket. Whenever the radiator cap was removed a significant release of pressure in the coolant system was felt.

In short, the problem was the head gasket and I was quoted £650+VAT to get it fixed, but could be more if the head required skimming; could exceed £1k. It was far more than the vehicle was worth and, with hindsight, I would have been better getting rid of it as soon as the initial problems occurred; driving in the winter with no heater was no fun!

I got £50 for the vehicle from a breakers which helped and, much to the amazement of the garage, I did get a few thousand miles out of the vehicle after the initial problems; but no journey was reliable. In the end I got a replacement vehicle for less than the cost of the repair that is 6 years younger and 30% of the mileage.

Not good news for you, but hope this helps.

Donners

credit_crunch_victim

you have been running it around for six months with a split hose so i would give it a run about for your self to see how it is now
the damage if there is any has probably been done but it may be as good as new
try it i would

cyclonebri1

MikeH99 wrote: »

I might be missing something, but isn't low pressure a sign of leakage - not high? Sounds to me you haven't got a problem as long as everything is tight and there's no evidence of oil / water contamination (like white foam under the oil filler cap) or visible leaks on the engine block.

The coolant system is always very high pressure ... why they always say not to remove the water filler cap when the engine is hot, cos scalding water will spray out.

How well do you really know that garage? Sounds to me like a hose failed, as they do, and he's spinning you a yarn based on the car's mileage. These are tough times in the car industry.

For peace of mind on the head gasket you could take it to another garage and ask them to do a (piston) pressure test. Shouldn't cost you much. They just take out each spark plug one at a time, screw in a pressure gauge in its place, and run the engine. Don't tell them what you've been told by the other guys - just say you don't think there's a problem but the car's getting on and you just want to check. But still you run the risk of being told what they think you're expecting to hear.

Ultimately, if you do have problem, I wouldn't repair the head gasket unless you or a mate can do it. It'll cost a fortune in labour, and by the time a car gets to that stage other serious and expensive things can also go wrong once you've shelled out on the engine. Like clutch or gearbox.

In that case it's better to get rid. If you can, find a car dealer that will offer a minimum part exchange value - typically £1,000. Of course, at all times checking the cars they have for sale are priced fairly!

Atb.

It's usually high pressure Mike. When the head gasket goes both combustion/compression effect the water system aqnd so can the oil system, both of which are higher in pressure than the cooling system so will increase water system pressure. Could theoreically be the other way round but normally the high explosive pressure from the cylinder blows the gasket between cyl and oilway or cyl and waterway.

Sometimes they do just appear to corrode and rot to prove the exception.;)

MikeH99

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

It's usually high pressure Mike. When the head gasket goes both combustion/compression effect the water system aqnd so can the oil system, both of which are higher in pressure than the cooling system so will increase water system pressure. Could theoreically be the other way round but normally the high explosive pressure from the cylinder blows the gasket between cyl and oilway or cyl and waterway.

Sometimes they do just appear to corrode and rot to prove the exception.;)

Sounds feasible. But in that case of gasket failure between cylinder and waterway interfering with the water system pressure, wouldn't you also be experiencing difficulty starting and lumpy running due to water also leaking into the cylinder, plus constant white smoke out of the exhaust rather than just when the engine is cold? Not to mention slow but steady water loss.

If angel00079 is experiencing these things too, I'd agree it's head gasket no question.