Switching between line rental providers on a BT line

bram01

A brief history: I've used various third-party call providers for many years, ending up with Talk Talk several years ago. I've never really had a problem with them. When BT started charging for 1571 I tried making a few calls via 1280, but decided last April to switch line rental to Talk Talk as well. All fine so far. Over to Broadband, I was a late starter here and finally took the plunge with Euro1net on their pay for a year up front deal. Fine until BT Wholesale pulled the plug. At this time Talk Talk and Sky were battling for the free broadband market. I opted for Sky because I make almost no international calls and couldn't justify the extra cost to Talk Talk. A few teething problems when the service was installed, but since then it's been great. Then Sky sent me that letter saying that they were adding £5/month to all broadband prices unless you had Sky Talk. I compared Talk Talk and Sky Talk call charges and thought there wasn't much to choose from for the few calls we actually make, plus with half-price rental for 6 months it was a no-brainer.

So, just before Christmas I signed up for Sky Talk with half price line rental online. That was where the fun began. I received a call from Talk Talk reminding me that I might have to pay up to £70 contract cancellation fee. I hadn't thought of that, but I'm really cheesed off that they didn't say over the phone that it would only be the remaining line-rental, so in my case that is only about £40. However, that isn't the worst bit, and this is where I hope someone on here can clarify the situation.

They say that to switch line-rental from one non-BT provider to another non-BT provider, you have to go back to BT for a year long contract. Is that really right?

Any help here would be gratefully received.

KimYeovil

No it is not. BUT the incumbent provider may not choose to accept your custom or pay (or bill you) the costs of the switch. They would rather another party (BT) be falsely associated with those costs. This allows them to offer (misleading) cheaper deals.

bram01

KimYeovil wrote: »

No it is not. BUT the incumbent provider may not choose to accept your custom or pay (or bill you) the costs of the switch. They would rather another party (BT) be falsely associated with those costs. This allows them to offer (misleading) cheaper deals.

Hmmm. I'm not sure I quite get what you mean. If I was to switch line rental from Talk Talk to Sky Talk, would I really have to pay BT to do this? Bear in mind that I don't have a relationship with BT anymore. How would this work?

KimYeovil

In a way, Bram01, you've built this rod for your own back. I don't mean to be (too) judgmental in mentioning this but you have been shopping around for the cheaper deals and even wangling a free 1571 service. If you want an open market with lots of cowboys cherry-picking their customers and refusing to provide a universal service then you have to accept the consequence that sooner or later you will be disadvantaged.

It costs £0 or £18 or £37 or £118 to arrange the engineering work at the exchange. Companies can afford to absorb the cheaper costs into their packages with 'free' switching. They can not afford to absorb the cost of the more expensive switches. Instead of being honest and declaring (and charging) this cost to you they choose to lie and claim it is impossible and they (successfully) blame and associate these costs to BT.

You do not need to complete a year's contract with BT. You can cancel it. There is a charge for termination. You may want to compare how much Sky would charge you if you terminated their contract after one month.

Of course there is a chance Sky will pay these costs for you - there are examples of this happening - or they will let you pay them - it is entirely up to Sky. BT and Talk Talk have nothing to do with it.

bram01

I'll try not sound too much like I'm upset with your reply, but I do think you're being a little harsh. I am a man in the street who does not know exactly how these things work. I understand the basics of CPS and the fact that there is now something (is it called WLR?) that allows you to choose the same supplier for both calls and rental of a BT type (as opposed to cable) line. I'm guessing that the wire between my house and the exchange is still maintained by BT Wholesale, but that they are contacted by my WLR supplier rather than BT Retail if something goes wrong. What seemed incredible to me was that I was being told that to switch between two WLR suppliers involved taking out a 12 month contract with BT Retail. I posted here in the hope that someone could tell me this was utter codswallop, possibly with a further explanation of how it should work.

This morning I have spoken to Ofcom, and then to Sky. Ofcom confirmed that if my new supplier offered line rental as well as my existing one then I could switch with no additional charge. Sky have only recently started offering line rental (afaik) which may be why Talk Talk were confused. It doesn't excuse them using baffling tactics to try and get me to cancel the switch though, and I will be raising a complaint with them in the near future. Sky have confirmed that they definitely do offer line rental on my exchange and that they have transfered several Talk Talk customers already and that there are no extra charges. I am at fault for not checking when my contract for line rental was up, although in my defence I've been with Talk Talk for years which confused the issue in my mind.

I guess the bit I object to most is the "shopping around for the cheaper deals and even wangling a free 1571 service". Yes, I've dealt with several other companies for calls, starting with the very first alternative (was it Mercury). Isn't this what the government wanted people to do when they opened up the market to competition. I fully understand BT not providing a free 1571 service if you don't make calls with them, but several (most?/all?) companies do offer a free service if you use them for both rental and calls, so I hardly call it wangling.

TalkTalk

Hi Bram01,

Am I right in thinking you have line rental and calls with TalkTalk and Broadband with Sky and you are wanting to move them both over to Sky? If this is the case then there is no need to go back to BT in between. Your service is still essentially a BT service its just TalkTalk rent the line from BT on your behalf. There may be a cessation fee dependant on your tariff and the time you have been a TalkTalk customer. Most contracts are 18 months but there are a couple of 12 month package contracts too.

The only time you would need to go back to BT first is if you where an LLU (free broadband) customer with TalkTalk. I can't offer any specific advise on here but if you pop over to https://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums there is plenty of help and advise on offer. Dont worry - if you want to go to Sky we wont try to make you stay with us. We offer as much help and advise as we can without trying to influence any of your decisions.

Cheers
EmmaL x

deklan99

There should be no need to go back to BT retail at all. Any worthwhile provider should be able to organise a "BT" line ie. The Phone Co-op - Line Conversions.

stormo

I had a thread yesterday and some members replied saying that I didnt need to go through BT to get SKY broadband and the post office reconnection and line rental should be fine, even though SKY told me that I cant have broadband with them as 'it has to be a bt line'. BUT IT IS!!!!

syko29793

It has to be BT Openreach line (non full LLU)
Post office use whats called a WLR 2 line which is fine for using broadband with another isp.
Only Talk Talk/Tiscali/Bulldog use full llu lines (there a few other smaller providers that use LLU for full provision but the mentioned are the main)
In short post office line and sky broadband will work fine