Is Overtime for NHS Auxilarys and Nurses Possible?

buzzed1234

Our boss is not allowing overtime. We used to do overtime but not at an overtime rate but now we are being paid more the boss wont allow overtime. Can we opt out of the European directive and therefore earn some extra cash?

dnomyar

Hi,

My wife has been a nurse for over 18 years. If its NHS, then a lot of trusts are not allowing overtime and making you do any through internal bank at normal rate. You can refuse to work over your contracted hours and if they are not paying you your overtime rate then you should not be rota'd for any more than your contracted hours. I do believe that you can opt out of the European Time Directive and have to sign a form which your trust HR should provide.

It could also be that its just the department you are working for that is not allowing overtime due to budget restraints. Have you enquired about doing any overtime or bank work in any other departments?

Caroline73_2

NHS very rarely offer overtime rates. Exceptions are often if you are called in due to being on an on call rota or being able to negotiate with your boss when you have your coat and the end of your shift and they want to you stay to cover another shift..

Your own Trust will expect you to do extra as bank work. Personally I would join an agency and work at a nearby trust if I wanted more. There is lots af agency work available in the private sector.

ragstoricheswannabe

hi, im a nurse too and when i worked in the nhs i used to do extra shifts on the bank, my ward was always short staffed so luckily could do my bank shifts on the ward where i worked. if not then as some one has already suggested then agency is the way to go, just beware as you can be chucked in the deep end in someplaces and left to sink (seen it happen)

good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Donegal_Paul

Ummmmmmm have any of you actually heard of Agenda for Change??

Overtime rates are built into this and your boss cannot ban overtime as such, they can however offer you extra shifts with time in lieu, or they can offer it as bank, their last option is to offer overtime but to them its the most expensive.

if you all stuck together and didnt do bank work they would have to give you overtime rate.

Its exactly this type of behaviour by management that made me leave the nhs after 20 years, that and a lack of colleagues support and the lack of b*lls by the unions
:-(

Now im running my own business, making less than 50% I was as a Charge Nurse, and even in the current recession still a hell of a lot happier

chriswatts

Yes, heard of Agenda for Change, 37.5 hour contractual hours. I'm not sure but I think bank work is considered a separate employment and thus doesn't get included in this figure. To join the bank at the trust I work for the nurses are required to sign a new contract.

Overtime can be banned, the trust I work for has banned it, it seems that trusts go through a stage of banning either overtime, bank or agency depending on what the current whim is. This is usually down to trust financial status than the European directive, but it would seem sensible to implement overtime instead of hiring agency staff.

Caroline73_2

Donegal_Paul wrote: »

Ummmmmmm have any of you actually heard of Agenda for Change??

Overtime rates are built into this and your boss cannot ban overtime as such, they can however offer you extra shifts with time in lieu, or they can offer it as bank, their last option is to offer overtime but to them its the most expensive.

if you all stuck together and didnt do bank work they would have to give you overtime rate.

Its exactly this type of behaviour by management that made me leave the nhs after 20 years, that and a lack of colleagues support and the lack of b*lls by the unions
:-(

Now im running my own business, making less than 50% I was as a Charge Nurse, and even in the current recession still a hell of a lot happier

But this will never happen, because there will always be someone person who is prepared to do it. I only work bank so I can fit shifts around my family so if permanent staff refused to do bank they would draft me in, therefore rendering the overtime as detailed in AFC irrelevant. I work in the same places all the time so know it as well as permanent staff.

Bank contracts are considered separate in AFC.

I also run my own business and it does make me happier than nursing and I earn more than I did full time nursing.

Casperthefriendlyghost

hi guys

My trust would not survive if it wasn't for overtime we all work, we have no choice due to the work I do. I regularly work over 60 hours a week, I'd love not to but as I'm an anaesthetic nurse in theatres, with on calls every week and on calls every fifth weekend, the hours I work are stupid. We are a Trust specialising in cardiac and thoracic surgery so are very busy, day and night. Can't tell someone they can't have a transplant or bypass at one in the morning.

I am grateful as I'm trying to pay off my debts, but sometimes would like a regular job with regular hours as it's no fun not coming home from work one night every week and doing weekends on call coming to work Friday morning and going home Monday evening, my trust does not believe in the working time directive.

It's difficult, I'm grateful for the money, I couldn't earn my salary in any other trust or hospital, although I'm at the top of my band and can't get any more pay increases, another quirk of the NHS, on the other hand I'd love to chose the hours I work, but I also love my job and would never be happy doing anything else.

My friend always complains that she cannot get overtime in her Trust either so she does agency work in her off time. But it is tiresome. Sorry about the essay, but I feel very passionate about the overtime issue and if I had no debts I would work part time and travel alot.

Cheers
Casper
x x

Donegal_Paul

chriswatts wrote: »

Yes, heard of Agenda for Change, 37.5 hour contractual hours. I'm not sure but I think bank work is considered a separate employment and thus doesn't get included in this figure. To join the bank at the trust I work for the nurses are required to sign a new contract.

Overtime can be banned, the trust I work for has banned it, it seems that trusts go through a stage of banning either overtime, bank or agency depending on what the current whim is. This is usually down to trust financial status than the European directive, but it would seem sensible to implement overtime instead of hiring agency staff.

Chris, find a union person that knows what they are talking about and is not in managements pocket.

Trusts CANNOT ban overtime, its in black and white in the AFC agreement.
Also, theres a hell of a lot more to AFC than working a 37.5 hour week, the EU working time directive is in fact seperate legislation.

Donegal_Paul

Caroline73 wrote: »

But this will never happen, because there will always be someone person who is prepared to do it. I only work bank so I can fit shifts around my family so if permanent staff refused to do bank they would draft me in, therefore rendering the overtime as detailed in AFC irrelevant. I work in the same places all the time so know it as well as permanent staff.

Bank contracts are considered separate in AFC.

I also run my own business and it does make me happier than nursing and I earn more than I did full time nursing.

Yep, the shame is there are more that are prepared to moan and whinge in the coffee room than stand up and get help from the unions etc to help them. The majority dont want to rock the boat and just roll over :-(

If the permanent staff refused to do bank i think that management are actually supposed to go to offer overtime for their own staff as a first course in fact, the idea being a better continuity of care. However management dont care about that they see the financial implications first not the patients.

Additionally, I dont believe that bank is seperate from AFC as everyone other than pure agency (non nhs contractors) come under it.
The bank employer I believe is NHS Professionals, but they are still an NHS body and hence subject to the same contract.
Oh, the only others of course that have their own rules are the doctors

chriswatts

Donegal_Paul wrote: »

Chris, find a union person that knows what they are talking about and is not in managements pocket.

Trusts CANNOT ban overtime, its in black and white in the AFC agreement.
Also, theres a hell of a lot more to AFC than working a 37.5 hour week, the EU working time directive is in fact seperate legislation.

Frankly I don't think a union person who is not in managements pockets exists. A union is probably as useful as a chocolate fire guard, it does seem that they will ignore some issues to get management support on others. Perhaps if unions revenues were more related to take home pay they might take more interest.

Trusts can offer or not offer overtime as they see fit, your only entitled to the 37.5 hour week. There is agreements on payment of overtime but I can't see anywhere in the AFC handbook that says your entitled to a certain amount of overtime. The trust can allocate that extra work to the bank. As for the working time directive, what I mean't was that overtime will probably depend more on if your trusts is currently in the red than being limited by the directive. For my sins I work in two trusts the one in the black does relent on overtime due to winter pressures the other one in the red doesn't and sometimes gives a bonus on bank.