Expensive Dental Treatment? - save thousands

superscotsman

I was listening to the radio, and there was a lady who wanted some expensive dental treatment done. In Rip-Off Britain they wanted £800 a tooth. But she found this dental clinic in Nicosia where the job they did was as good if not better, and they only charged £250 per tooth. Furthermore, they were honest about it as well, telling her what parts of the job were unnecessary.
There is no dental college on Cyprus so all the dentists are trained in other parts of Europe - the guy who was on the radio was trained in Germany.
Their website is http://www.dentalcyprus.com
So you can combine your holiday with your dental treatment and save loads.

Toothsmith

Because, of course, humans are just like washing machines, and all that dentistry is is just changing the odd spare part.

Nothing ever goes wrong with those spare parts, they never fail or blow up into painful infections do they?

Needing to find a dentist in an emergency to deal with something that was done hundreds of miles away will never be a problem in this country, and even if it is, a plane ride with a face the size of a football back to a lovely warm country would be absolute bliss!

Nile

My NHS dentist told me that when the new contract starts in April, dentists will be restricted on arranging urgent appointments for patients in pain. I was told that unless you've seen the dentist within the previous 8 weeks, the dentist doesn't have to give you an urgent appointment.:eek:


My dentist (with a wicked sense of humour) said, "Of course I'll see patients in pain urgently............unless I don't like them.":D

Toothsmith

This is 'sort of' true.

Being 'registered' with an NHS dentist will cease on 1st April. The only patients a dentist will have an obligation of care to are the ones currently undergoing treatment.

A dentist with an NHS contract, particularly if they are a 'mainly' NHS practice will be deemed to have 'capacity' to see patients until they are booked up 8 weeks in advance. So the local PCT can send them toothache patients even if that patient has never been to the practice before.

If a regular patient then gets a toothache, but isn't currently 'under treatment' the dentist may or may not have urgent appointments available for that patient. If they have, then fine, if they haven't then the patient rings up NHS direct to be pointed in the direction of another dentist who has an appointment free.

In effect a 'waiting list' for NHS dentistry is being created, rather than having all these pesky dentists saying they are full just because they have X thousand patients registered with them.

The new contract is an absolute Godsend for patients who only ever go to the dentist when something hurts. (Assuming there'll be enough dentists left in the system to go round). For the regular attender who looks after their teeth and goes regularly, you'll be fighting for an appointment with everybody else, plus you'll be paying near private prices every time you need the odd little thing doing.

Just to get back to the original post though, I've had a look at the Website, and they seem very cagey about their actual prices. There were only a couple of FAQs that said 'How much will it cost' and on both occasions the answer was 'Costs are variable depending on complexity and proceedure required' - A perfectly true and proper answer in my opinion, but dentists in this country are critisized for doing the same thing! I would think that the costs at this place would not be too far away from some of the lower costs available in this country. (There is varyation here if you look around a bit). Having anything done fairly close to home would always be better in case things do go wrong. (And things do go wrong for everybody - I'm not saying the people in Cyprus are bad - they seem to have a very nice practice - but Sod's Law happens to us all!)

Savvy_Sue

Toothsmith won't be at all surprised by this article in my local paper earlier this week. Actually in the paper version the PCT said something like "the dentist knew he was taking a risk when he took on the extra dentists at the time he took them on." So you're too busy to do the job properly, but you can't take on extra help because it won't be funded.

Toothsmith

Tony B'liars response to the question yesterday just show's his understanding of the problem!!

The Prime Minister replied: "I do understand that it is a problem and of course one of the reasons we are trying to get more dentists into the NHS is precisely to deal with it.

"But I'm afraid in the end as a result of the contract in 1990 we cannot actually force dentists to come back in and provide NHS services, but we are doing our best to recruit more NHS dentists and I hope he will support us in that."

Priceless!!!!

This ISN'T about recruiting a dentist - they have 3 ready to go - it's just there is no funding for them!!

A similar thing happened in Scarborough a couple of months ago.

superscotsman

I am sure Toothsmith that you realise that I have to be in the spirit of things regarding this forum, and I would have to report the radio programme.
For my part I am not satisfied with dentistry in this country. A couple of years back I opened my mouth to a dentist and said in a loud voice in front of a packed waiting room: "Look, is this a dental surgery or a clip joint?" My father used to have his specs made in Thailand or Singapore at a fraction of the price it would have cost in rip-off Britain. It makes sense to have other services performed in other countries.
We are like pit ponies in this country. It is only when we go abroad that we can see what a rip-off this green and unpleasant land really is.
To return to the radio programme, this lady was going to be charged £800 for 5 teeth. She sent a photo of her mouth to the dental clinic in Nicosia, saying she wanted to have a smile like a pony, and the dentist gave her a full history of her teeth which was perfectly accurate. He told her that it was only necessary to treat 4 of her teeth. So the dental treatment itself cost ONE QUARTER of what it would have cost in rip-off Britain. She said that surgical facilities in the Cypriot surgery were as good as - if not better than - a surgery in rip-off Britain. I have looked at the site myself, and they have got plasma TV and internet radio in the waiting room. The last time I was in a dentist's waiting room there was a pile of magazines. I picked one up, and read that the Germans had just invaded Poland.
I would not mind betting the £3,000 difference that - present company excepted - there would be more chance of something going wrong in this country than in Cyprus - certainly if any of the money-grubbing butchers I've been to are anything to go by.
There is a shortage of dentists in this country, because, I am told, Thatcher & Co closed two dental colleges down during the 1980s. Now we are getting some more dentists imported from abroad. Who are they? Nice German-trained Cypriots? I have been told that they are coming all the way from countries like Nigeria. And all those on the ebay section of this forum will tell you what Nigeria is famous for - and it's not dentistry.

Quasar

Toothsmith wrote:

Because, of course, humans are just like washing machines, and all that dentistry is is just changing the odd spare part.

Nothing ever goes wrong with those spare parts, they never fail or blow up into painful infections do they?

Needing to find a dentist in an emergency to deal with something that was done hundreds of miles away will never be a problem in this country, and even if it is, a plane ride with a face the size of a football back to a lovely warm country would be absolute bliss!

About 12 years ago I underwent a series of massive dental operations to have seven dental implants in my upper jaw. This required bone graft on both sides of the palate during a 4 hour operation, then one year wait for the new bone to integrate, and then the connection of the implants, wait another bit, and then the crowns.

The cost was :eek:

This was done here in London and I have had no problem these past 12 years, but should I have, I could be seen very quickly by the dentist who did the work and now knows my mouth better than I do.

Toothsmith

superscotsman wrote:

I am sure Toothsmith that you realise that I have to be in the spirit of things regarding this forum, and I would have to report the radio programme.

Fair enough. In the spirit of this forum I say that the dental patient who will have the least trouble from their teeth is one who finds a nearby dentist they are happy with, puts the service they receive above the financial cost, makes an effort to look after things themselves, and attends regularly.

superscotsman wrote:

For my part I am not satisfied with dentistry in this country. A couple of years back I opened my mouth to a dentist and said in a loud voice in front of a packed waiting room: "Look, is this a dental surgery or a clip joint?"

His surgery was in the waiting room???

OK, a bad experience. Go somewhere else. Your choice is not either there or Cyprus.

superscotsman wrote:

It is only when we go abroad that we can see what a rip-off this green and unpleasant land really is.

True in many ways, but NHS dental prices are the lowest in the developed world, and private prices average a lot less than Europe, Ireland and, of course, USA.The dental patient in this country gets a very good deal.

superscotsman wrote:

To return to the radio programme, this lady was going to be charged £800 for 5 teeth. She sent a photo of her mouth to the dental clinic in Nicosia, saying she wanted to have a smile like a pony, and the dentist gave her a full history of her teeth which was perfectly accurate.

That's miraculous! A clairvoyant as well! It is impossible to tell enough information from a photograph. X-Rays are needed, and any decent examination requires a measurement of gum health that requires a measuring probe on all 4 surfaces of each tooth. it was probably accurate enough to impress the patient, but it wouldn't impress me!

superscotsman wrote:

He told her that it was only necessary to treat 4 of her teeth. So the dental treatment itself cost ONE QUARTER of what it would have cost in rip-off Britain.

She'd probably have got the same quote if she'd gone to another dentist in Britain who decided not all the work needed doing. Prices in the private sector are not 'set' like NHS ones. Some dentists are dearer, some are cheaper. There are normally different cost options at the same practice as well.

Of course though, another dentist would have 'ripped her off' by charging her another examination fee as he wouldn't have had the advanced talents necessary to diagnose everything from a snapshot.

superscotsman wrote:

She said that surgical facilities in the Cypriot surgery were as good as - if not better than - a surgery in rip-off Britain. I have looked at the site myself, and they have got plasma TV and internet radio in the waiting room.

Of course, I'm saving up for those things as they've been proved to improve a dentist's skills no end! All this proves is that even at his fees, he's still making a enough profit!! Where does that come form then, or is it OK to make a profit if your not paying tax in this country???

superscotsman wrote:

The last time I was in a dentist's waiting room there was a pile of magazines. I picked one up, and read that the Germans had just invaded Poland.

That's why I always recommend people visit a surgery to book the first appointment. If the waiting room is like that - walk out and go somewhere else (Local - not Cyprus just yet!) It's cost you nowt!

superscotsman wrote:

I would not mind betting the £3,000 difference that - present company excepted - there would be more chance of something going wrong in this country than in Cyprus - certainly if any of the money-grubbing butchers I've been to are anything to go by.

I think the people you've been to are not at the same end of the market that we're discussing here.

I'd say the success rates would be best at the practice that did the most thorough initial examination. If problems are forseen, they can be countered. At least if it was done pretty locally you'd have it sorted out pretty quickly - assuming you'd selected your dentist wisely and not just on price.

superscotsman wrote:

There is a shortage of dentists in this country, because, I am told, Thatcher & Co closed two dental colleges down during the 1980s.

The shortage of dentists is not as bad as you'd think. The shortage is in dentists willing to work at 'rip off' prices from the current Government.

superscotsman wrote:

Now we are getting some more dentists imported from abroad. Who are they? Nice German-trained Cypriots? I have been told that they are coming all the way from countries like Nigeria. And all those on the ebay section of this forum will tell you what Nigeria is famous for - and it's not dentistry.

Their are a fair few Greeks coming. Several Polish and some Indian I believe. Not heard too much about Nigerian. I think several nigerian students come to British dental schools to be trained, so if you have experience of any, they may well have qualified here.The problems with the imported ones are that they feel they were very misled by the Government roadshows that recruited them, and that they were better off in their own countries. (Lower wages, but much cheaper living costs). As they had to sell up in their home countries in order to get here and get examined for certification in this country, many can't afford to go back just yet.

Savvy_Sue

I've had two Scandinavian dentists at separate points in the last ten years, Toothsmith asked if they were young and blonde but alas, no, both middle-aged and boring chaps.

superscotsman

No, Toothsmith, don't try to catch me out. I always tell the truth: it makes other people uneasy.
How the incident I mentioned came about I will narrate below.
I had been with an NHS dentist. I did not go for routine check-ups, since I had become cynical that even if there were nothing whatever wrong with my teeth, I would have a few fillings.
One day a molar broke. I was in pain. I had had similar problems with the corresponding molar at the other side of my mouth. I had had a gold crown fitted (on a private basis) on that one, and I was happy with it. I rang up the dentist and was told by the receptionist that as I had not attended since Adam was a boy I had been struck off his list, and he had his full ration of NHS patients, so go some place else.
I got the Yellow Pages out and rang around, and found a dentist to take me on so long as I had it done privately. He was also able to see me in two days.
I went to see him. He quoted a price for a gold crown that was four times that of the other guy. After an argument, I decided that I did not have a great deal of choice i the matter, and he shot some anaesthetic into my mouth and sent me out to the waiting room, so that he could see someone else while waiting for the anaesthetic to kick in.
While waiting the receptionist came up to me and started gobbing off about how I was going to pay. I told her to invoice me. She said they did not do that and I would have to cough up first. I said I did not have enough cash, and she would have to accept a cheque. She said no, and didn't I have a credit card. I said no. I did have a solo card. Not acceptable.

She. You were told when you made the appointment about methods of payment.
I. No I wasn't. [True.]

She then went into the surgery and came back with the dentist. And that is how I was able to say what I said to him in full earshot of the waiting room.
Eventually I produced a debit card from my business account that they would accept.
He also charged me for seeing me at two days notice.
You may say that British dental charges are cheap compared with countries other than Cyprus. Are you also taking into account that private patients are paying twice? Once for the private treatment, and once again in tax to prop up the NHS treatment that we can't get.
You also say that you cannot analyse teeth from a photograph. Perhaps not, but there is an awful lot that you can gather from simple observation. State of the gum. You can tell by the colour and position of the gum whether the patient has gingivitis for example. The dentist on the radio (Marios) told the patient that in her past she had had a brace. He said the brace should not have been on for more than two years maximum but had been left on longer. (It had been left on longer than two years.) I will let you decide his competence. I do not know much from just listening to the radio, but I do know that it involved veneering - for the Hollywood smile. He was also talking about titanium inserts being placed in the bone. I'll let you sort that one out.
I am afraid dentists in this country have had a bad press in recent decades, and there are a number of members of the public who do not trust them. In my opinion with good reason. After I left school I did not see a dentist for over a decade. Eventually i had to go to one to have a wisdom tooth drawn. While I was there, he told me that there was a lot of drilling and filling to do. He then asked his assistant to "mix an amalgam". The seat was in virtual horizontal position, but I sat bolt upright. I am not a dentist, but I am a physicist, so i do know what the principle ingredient of an amalgam is. I also knew enough history to know that during the middle ages, if you wanted to have someone bumped off, you would lace his food with quicksilver. I find it an obscenity to - on another occasion - listen to a receptionist talk to some ill-educated prole from a council estate and refer to it as a "silver filling." If this filling is safe, why not use the word "mercury"?
As though it were not bad enough putting quicksilver in our mouths, we are having to drink nerve poison too. Fluoride is a waste product from the chemical industry. They had problems in disposing it...until someone found a piece of research (which has since been discredited) which seemed to suggest that fluoride was good for teeth. It was the answer to the chemical industry's prayers. No more problems about fluoride: just tip it into the water supply.
I was discussing the fluoride matter at length with an American chemist. He is a devout Mormon, so, like me, he always tells the truth. He showed me statistics of all the American states which measured the number of caries in fluoridated states with unfluoridated states. As the old soap powder advert used to say, "not a ha'pworth of difference." There was a slight bias in favour of unfluorodated states, but nothing statistically significant. He also pointed out that the Native American reservations were all fluoridated, and the Native Americans got free dental treatment; yet they seemed to have more caries than anybody else. (I know there are non-chemical reasons for this, as I have hinted at earlier.)
He told me that some decades ago they were debating whether to fluoridate or not in the City in Arizona where he lived at the time. He was there to give evidence on behalf of the anti-fluoride brigade. The fluoride man got up, and showed a projected picture of a child with snow-blindingly white teeth. "That," said he, "is a child from an area where the water has been fluoridised." He then showed a picture of another child. There were gaps in the child's teeth, and those left were as black as the ace of spades. "That," said he, "is a child from an area where the water has not been fluoridised." And that was about the sum total of his presentation. (No X-ray images here either.) My friend was not called to give his evidence. The city authorities decided then and there to fluoridate the water. My friend thought that the poisoned water supply did not prevent any caries. But he did tell me what it did do. It stripped off the deposits that had accumulated over the years on the insides of the water pipes, and the water company's pumps kept breaking down as a result.
I cringe every time I open up a newspaper to hear that some pressure group of DENTISTS or other are demanding that the government have the entire country fluoridated.
So when you hear about people heading off to Cyprus to have their teeth done...well, it's your industry: you know a lot more about what is wrong with it than I.