Digging up porcelain tiles for new rad..is this possible?

Yorkshire_Bred

Don't know what is on the wall? but you can insulate a non cavity wall by adding an additional stoothing wall directly in front of the existing wall and infill the studwork with Kingspan, you could run any pipework for a new radiator behind that.

Vindiesel

oh ok, thats interesting. not sure that would work, as the wall is tiled, has a window in it, and there is a bath and loo nearby.


thanks anyway all

27col

I should not worry about the floor. If it has been laid on plywood, the tiles will probably lift anyway.
A toilet on a tiled floor is extremely easy to remove and replace. Modern toilets all have push fit connections anyway.
I have no condensation in my bath room at all. The main reason is that there is an extractor fan, and the second reason is, that when I run a bath, I mix the hot and cold water in a mixer tap. This is adjusted such that the water comes out of the mixer at exactly the required temperature and there is virtually no steam at all. I have never had more than the slightest trace of condensation. In fact the mirror does not normally even steam up. There is no window. The only heat comes from a towel rail.
By the way how, old is this extension. How can it not have a cavity. Was it built in contravention of the building regulations.

jockster211

Hiya Vindiesel

Does your bathroom extension have any extraction, like the wall type extractor? The question was asked early on in the thread (can't see a reply) but it would be useful to know.

Jockster

Vindiesel

hi jock

yes it does, but it isn't a massive help. I agree that if that was upgraded, that would be more of a benefit, but i am more perturbed at the coldness of the bathroom including the far wall, as it encourages condensation to form there (nowherer near extractor).

This coupled with the unpleasant fact the room is very cold leads me to think if the room was warmed up, AND ventilated a bit more, it would solve the problem..?

I can easily ventilate a bit more by opening the window/ putting it on the night setting, but then the room would be even colder, which brings me back to the original point... I will be having a boiler man out in feb or march for a service, so i will ask him then f it's poss to either run a pipe under the floor without ripping it all up, or if it can be removed to lay a pipe, and then relaid seamlessly..?

27 col, I appreciate what you are saying but i don't necassarily think that's the right answer - surely there is no steam/condensation as your room is as warm as the water coming out of the taps, or thereabouts. I know my room is cold, and the cold far wall encourages water to condense, so i think i need to warm it up.

Re the cavity, i have had an insulation installer round before to survey the house for it and he said it dod not have any. To be fair, he did not venture into the extension, but i wonder why he did not take this into account and look here?

If i can get the extn cavity insulated, this will ceratinly help - gonna have another look at the original survey, see if this mentions it.

still think i need more heat though even if i can get cavity ins!

thanks,

Vin

jockster211

Hiya Vindiesel

I reckon you need to tackle the problem in 2 ways. Certainly the cold room is only exacerbating any condensation issue you are having.

Firstly condensation usually forms where moist warm air meets colder air or surfaces. So a couple of things you should check first......

1. If its a newish extension I assume all building regs were followed, but its worth just checking damp proof course (DPC) is in place in case you are experiencing rising damp, technical drawings were followed & correct materials were used. You may need some help here.
2. There should be airbicks in your extension(?) just check they are clear. After any build there is a tendency to have debris build up around the founds, sometimes blocking the flow of air or bridging the DPC.
3. Is the guttering on your extension OK? Just check it is directing rainwater away from the extension, there are no leaks or holes.
4. Is your extraction fan actually running? From what you say it sounds like it is. Can you upgrade it? Is it connected to the tubing? Is the vent blocked in any way?
5. Wherever possible ventilate the room (forget the heating issue for a moment), when cooking run the kitchen extractor (again I'll assume you have one), drying clothes indoors in winter always adds lots of moisture into the air so try & ventilate any room they are in & if at all possible dry them outdoors.
6. Certain types of heating can add a lot of moisture to the air - especially flueless gas fires, portable gas fires, paraffin heaters - so try not to run these if you have them.
7. Lastly ventilate your home. My missus usually opens the windows late morning 'til early afternoon, even in winter.

All of this will help reduce the moisture in the air. So on to the heating & insulation....

1. Just out of curiosity is the Kitchen cold? Is it on the same level as the bathroom? Is the 2nd storey a bedroom? Is that cold?
2. Would you consider surface mounting some pipework from your current rad to the far wall? You can get microbore pipework 8 or 10mm which could fit snuggly inside some white uPVC trunking. Or hide it behind the bath?
3. Or could you lift the flooring on the 2nd floor, extend pipework to the far wall & then drop pipework down to a radiator in the bathroom. Sorry not sure if the bathroom is on the ground floor.
4. In terms of insulation I'm not sure if you say there is or isn't a wall cavity. If there is a cavity get it filled, it will only help. If there isn't I would reboard with thermal plasterboard & thermal rockwool (not a job for the diy-er), but this would mean completely redecorating.

Jockster

Razor

Can you run the heating pipes up from the room below?

Vindiesel

argh. just lost post.

anyway, thanks for the input. Guttering fine. bathroom on 2nd (top) floor. kicthen below not cold. eextractor new but not best. will look at upgrading, but sited in a porcelain tile above shower so to make it bigger would be nigh on impossible.
There are no airbricks in extn - bathroom anyway, but i need it re-pointing tihs year so will consider if possible.

Do ventilate, but agree will do more. no portable heating, just GCH. Do air dry a lot of washing, and rellay want (need) a dryer - will get one when this one dies. i hate doing it anyway.

would deffo consider building pipework into a tiled casing around room HOWEVER...can't hide behind bath as it;s freestanding! BUT....on other side of room, there are already waste pipes for shower boxed in (tiled), and existing rad next to shower, so perhaps this could be utilised to box in new rad pipes - what a bloody good idea jockster, so this would mean minimal mess/destruction of existing, anmd perhaps that i could get a rad fitted under window. excellent, that night work. floor would still be Baltic (porcelain) but can't do much about that apart from get a rug for winter :-)

Deffo can't lift flooring - it's brand new porcelain, has a free standing bath on it, loo of course & big shower cubicle. Idea above negates this idea though.

Terms of insulation, i simply don't know if there is a cavity - surveyor came round and said not (main house built 1870s) but did not look at extn - will investigate and do if possible.
Second idea not really viable due to points above.

However, the boxed pipes idea sounds like a good one. If it works, i will have to buy you a pint ! Will speak to my bathroom man next week, see if he can help. if not, will have to wait for a central heating man

cheers again, happy new year :-)

V

EliteHeat

jockster211 wrote: »

Hiya Vindiesel

I reckon you need to tackle the problem in 2 ways. Certainly the cold room is only exacerbating any condensation issue you are having.

Firstly condensation usually forms where moist warm air meets colder air or surfaces. So a couple of things you should check first......

1. If its a newish extension I assume all building regs were followed, but its worth just checking damp proof course (DPC) is in place in case you are experiencing rising damp, technical drawings were followed & correct materials were used. You may need some help here.
2. There should be airbicks in your extension(?) just check they are clear. After any build there is a tendency to have debris build up around the founds, sometimes blocking the flow of air or bridging the DPC.
3. Is the guttering on your extension OK? Just check it is directing rainwater away from the extension, there are no leaks or holes.
4. Is your extraction fan actually running? From what you say it sounds like it is. Can you upgrade it? Is it connected to the tubing? Is the vent blocked in any way?
5. Wherever possible ventilate the room (forget the heating issue for a moment), when cooking run the kitchen extractor (again I'll assume you have one), drying clothes indoors in winter always adds lots of moisture into the air so try & ventilate any room they are in & if at all possible dry them outdoors.
6. Certain types of heating can add a lot of moisture to the air - especially flueless gas fires, portable gas fires, paraffin heaters - so try not to run these if you have them.
7. Lastly ventilate your home. My missus usually opens the windows late morning 'til early afternoon, even in winter.

All of this will help reduce the moisture in the air. So on to the heating & insulation....

1. Just out of curiosity is the Kitchen cold? Is it on the same level as the bathroom? Is the 2nd storey a bedroom? Is that cold?
2. Would you consider surface mounting some pipework from your current rad to the far wall? You can get microbore pipework 8 or 10mm which could fit snuggly inside some white uPVC trunking. Or hide it behind the bath?
3. Or could you lift the flooring on the 2nd floor, extend pipework to the far wall & then drop pipework down to a radiator in the bathroom. Sorry not sure if the bathroom is on the ground floor.
4. In terms of insulation I'm not sure if you say there is or isn't a wall cavity. If there is a cavity get it filled, it will only help. If there isn't I would reboard with thermal plasterboard & thermal rockwool (not a job for the diy-er), but this would mean completely redecorating.

Jockster

Seriously good advice.