Pensions Ahhhhhhh

JoolzS

ellies_angel wrote: »

I am in a relationship with a Widower who receives a pension from his late wife. He has one dependant child. If we were to co-habit or marry he would lose this pension. My salary wouln't cover what he would lose in his pension so we had no choice but to live seperately.

I am superannuated at my work and I could put my partner down as the beneficary of my pension should I die, however if he was then to co-habit or remarry he would lose it.

What I am trying to get at is I think this system sucks. You pay into a pension for when you retire. God forbid something should happen to you, you know that your loved ones will have some financial security, however according to this system they wouldn't be allowed to go on and have a new life so what is my alternative, to put my nephew and godson down as my beneficaries so that they will get the full benefit of what I have paid into my pension

If he loved you enough he wouldn't care! (Is that what you were looking for?)/

EdInvestor

To my mind, individuals who want to make provision for their dependant children should do it by purchasing life cover, rather than via their work pension scheme, where they deprive single people and couples without children, who are now I believe the majority of the population, of their fair share of the communal pot.

Obviously there has been a demographic change over the past 50 years or so when pensions first became widespread, and they have not kept up. As we can see, it is only in 2010 that the state pension will move into the modern area and introduce gender equality.While spouse pensions may have been appropriate in the past, the future does look different.

jack_spratt_2

You could extend that theory into the NHS if your parent or grandparent had any type of illness( make there siblings take out private health insurance )!!


If you live in a high crime rate area pay for your own private police force (why should I subsidise you )

Council tax the same

National insurance contributions

Its a fact of life thank god we hopefully live in a caring society sometimes we pay into a scheme for the benefit of everyone

ellies_angel

If he loved you enough he wouldn't care! (Is that what you were looking for?)/ ZoolzS

You know something he doesn't care, but I do, why should his daughter lose out because as she is still a 16 year old dependant at college she also receives from her mums pension which would stop.

My complaint is why should you lose your pension just because you remarry or cohabit with someone. Hence the reason I have now listed my nephew and godson joint beneficaries

Jennifer_Jane

jack_spratt wrote: »

You could extend that theory into the NHS if your parent or grandparent had any type of illness( make there siblings take out private health insurance )!!


If you live in a high crime rate area pay for your own private police force (why should I subsidise you )

Council tax the same

National insurance contributions

Its a fact of life thank god we hopefully live in a caring society sometimes we pay into a scheme for the benefit of everyone

Going to bed now, but again, Jack Spratt, a spurious argument. Can't be bothered to do anything more than say that - perhaps tomorrow....

Jen

EdInvestor

jack_spratt wrote: »

Its a fact of life thank god we hopefully live in a caring society sometimes we pay into a scheme for the benefit of everyone

If this type of company pension was really fair, you would see it replicated in the private pension/annuity system.Needless to say, it isn't.

dobefan

dunstonh wrote: »

Why is a pension a risky investment? That is like saying a Tupperware tub contains out of date food without knowing what is in the tub and when it was put in it. It may not even have food in it.

Would you like to explain why you feel that way and what "at this time" actually means?

Well for starters say you have a fund of 100k how much of that can you lift? then on your death the fund pays half rate to spouce? and the fund then dies on their death!

The cash would be better off in a private fund where it could be passed on to family IMHO, though I've my concerns about these now too.

I have savings and investments running from the early 80's and all I can say I would have been better off enjoying life a little more and not saving so hard, going by the mess the boys at the top have made of things.

House value down by at least 40%, share funds down by something similar, savings rates heading south ... how can anyone think a pension is a good investment?

If you are lucky enough to have a co or gov pension well and good, it has cost you nothing and is all a bonus at the end of the day.

I also think many folks on low wages like myself, have been sold pensions that are only a joke, going by my forcasts 2k / year.
Cheers

dunstonh

Well for starters say you have a fund of 100k how much of that can you lift?

25% as a tax free cash with the rest providing an income. The clue is in the name "pension". It is for providing a pension. Funnily enough.

then on your death the fund pays half rate to spouce?

Depends on the pension. The ones that pay half to spouse are not normally based on the value. The fact you mention value suggests its a money purchase pension and on your death before retirement the full amount is paid out. Not half.

and the fund then dies on their death!

no it doesnt. It is paid to them in cash (tax free) and becomes part of their estate.

After retirement, the death benefits may be reduced but that would depend on the type of annuity you would buy and what guarantees you build into that. e.g. 10 year payment guarantee or value protect guarantee (which returns capital which was not paid out under the annuity minus a tax charge).

The cash would be better off in a private fund where it could be passed on to family IMHO, though I've my concerns about these now too.

Quite possibly. This option would provide a lower income for you in retirement and lower your own living standards but if that is what you want then you dont put it in a pension. However, I repeat that a pension is for providing a pension. Not for providing your children with free money.

I have savings and investments running from the early 80's and all I can say I would have been better off enjoying life a little more and not saving so hard, going by the mess the boys at the top have made of things.

That is very unlikely unless you are investing in a bad way or using poor quality methods/products. Personally, i am running in double digits average per year.

House value down by at least 40%

But still up 100% over the last 10 years.

share funds down by something similar

But up 20% from the low point recovering nearly 10% already. Its only back to 2005 figures and the last few months have been a good time to be buying.

how can anyone think a pension is a good investment?

You make the classic mistake of mixing up tax wrapper with investments. A pension doesnt make or lose money. Its the investments within the tax wrapper that do that. Investments zig zag in value. Always have, always will. You dont panic after a 40% drop. Especially when you have had 100% gain in the 5 years previous. You average out the ups and the downs and these down periods can be very beneficial to those with a long time to go to retirement.

I also think many folks on low wages like myself, have been sold pensions that are only a joke, going by my forcasts 2k / year.

A pension income of just £2000 a year suggests a pension fund that is estimated at just around £30,000. You would hope someone in their early 30s would have already built up £30,000 in their pension. If that is the amount you are looking at when you retire then your problem is more down to not enough money going into your retirement planning in the first place.

You sound disillusioned and what you say sounds like a cross between pub talk and newspaper talk where its easy to give excuses and use inaccurate information. However, there is no reason to be that way.

You sound as if you need your objectives reviewed (do you want a pension or do you want to pass the money on) and you should get your pension reviewed. Especially if it was set up before 2001 (modern pensions are mostly a lot better than old ones - not always the case but more often than not).

margaretclare

You sound as if you need your objectives reviewed (do you want a pension or do you want to pass the money on) and you should get your pension reviewed. Especially if it was set up before 2001 (modern pensions are mostly a lot better than old ones - not always the case but more often than not).

I agree with this. Many people seem to be confused about what a pension is for. As I see it is for providing you - the individual - with an income for the years in which you won't be able to work, but when you will still expect a reasonably comfortable lifestyle. It is NOT intended to be passed on to anyone else - others can and should make their own provision.

'Modern pensions are a mostly a lot better than older ones' - one of the things which IS better is the amount of information that there is now available, not only on this site but in the newspapers, BBC 'Moneybox', lots of different places. By contrast, when I was paying into a NHS pension I was laughed at by many colleagues for doing so. No one said to me that it was one of the better schemes around. Most of my colleagues, who were 99.9% female, had no idea that there was any value in being in a pension scheme at all. Many of them kept their hours just below full-time in order to avoid having to pay into it at all. How different things are nowadays, and about time too.

jack_spratt_2

I agree with this. Many people seem to be confused about what a pension is for. As I see it is for providing you - the individual - with an income for the years in which you won't be able to work, but when you will still expect a reasonably comfortable lifestyle. It is NOT intended to be passed on to anyone else - others can and should make their own provision.

To me and I would think many others the most and only important thing is the security of our families not the benefits that I will receive as an individual but with the knowledge that the company pension which you have paid into and was which as stated in the scheme rules that a pension would be provided for any spouse and dependants ! The rules which applies to pension scheme are there in black and white at the onset !!It was your decision to join it
As I have and others have said that this is the rules of the scheme you cannot change them just because they are not of any benefit to you at a later date in an effort to increase your payout .
You still seem unable to grasp that not all people will be in a position for whatever reason to provide there own pension but must add you are entitled to your view just as much as i am

And I do have great sympathy for the original poster we seem to have had the thread hijacked