variance and how to investigate...

Soubrette

The ex is being very coy about what he earns and is stalling as much as possible.

He is a director of a ltd company but is basically a one man band. I have been told that child support will be worked out on his salary which I know is low with the rest of his income taken as dividends.

Unless I can investigate and find out how much per year he is taking as dividends then dividend income will not be taking into account as the CSA will not investigate on my behalf.

I have printed his last 4 years company accounts but as he is a small company they give very little information of money going in and out.

Does anyone have any ideas where I can get this information from?

Many thanks

Sou

NACSA_CHAIR

You apply to the CSA for a variation form. when this comes you look at "income not taken into account" section, and detail what you know about the extra monies you believe he as. You may also want to look at the other grounds for variation, which will be detailed in the form.

Fill in the sections that apply, and send the form off, i would send it recorded delivery just to be sure. if the variation is rejected, then you should appeal. On appeal hearing will give you a much better platform to argue your case.

Soubrette

NACSA_CHAIR wrote: »

You apply to the CSA for a variation form. when this comes you look at "income not taken into account" section, and detail what you know about the extra monies you believe he as. You may also want to look at the other grounds for variation, which will be detailed in the form.

Fill in the sections that apply, and send the form off, i would send it recorded delivery just to be sure. if the variation is rejected, then you should appeal. On appeal hearing will give you a much better platform to argue your case.

Thanks NACSA CHAIR. The lady I spoke to a few days ago at the CSA is sending this form out although she has yet to make an interim assessment as yet. She advised to return it once she has made this assessment (although she is giving his accountant a bit more grace as it is over christmas).

Unfortunately the only 'proof' I have is my say so on the income that we used to earn as a family 5 to 10 years ago and his lifestyle - despite pleading poverty he has two cars, a four bedroomed house, two foreign holidays this year as well as numerous weekends away.

But in the end it all seems to come down to what I say against what he says :rolleyes:

Sou

bdt1

Unfortunately what occured 5-10 years ago seems not to be reflective of todays 'credit crunch', surely every1 feeling things so income won't be what it was 10 years ago unless ex a debt collector or bailiff

NACSA_CHAIR

bdt is right - income that was earned such a long time ago would not be considered now - but its the lifestyle that you would need to look at. Items such as his two cars (depending on what they were of course) and foreign holidays may be the area that will be useful.

Eg; an NRP has two cars - both standard family cars, one belonging to him one belonging to his partner. He has two foreign holidays - Majorca, cheap flights 10 day special deals - not much of a lifestyle and thus not likely to succeed.

NRP has two cars - one top of range Land Rover, one merc. He has foreign Holidays - 2 week in Caribbean and 2 weeks ski-ing - could suggest that his income is higher than he is declaring and thus variation will most likely succeed, If the NRP is this flush, there may also be assets about that can be used.

The variation ground was a useful introduction - when used for the purpose that it was intended for. But we see cases from both sides, where the PWC is using the variation route simply to create further misery and intrusion - but if the grounds are not there - the variation is likely to fail. This is just a waste of everyone's time - and tax payers money.

Then we see the genuine cases where the NRP has declared income of just a few hundred pounds, thus pays minimal child support, but he has professional career, owns a variety of sports cars, regular luxury holidays etc, regularly visits to high class restaurants etc, but clever book keeping to present a low wage. The legislation needed something extra to look more closely at such cases, and the variation scheme offered that opportunity.

So if you believe he is living a lavish lifestyle and not supporting his children - variation is the way to go.

Soubrette

bdt1 wrote: »

Unfortunately what occured 5-10 years ago seems not to be reflective of todays 'credit crunch', surely every1 feeling things so income won't be what it was 10 years ago unless ex a debt collector or bailiff

It wouldn't surprise me if he was earning less than he was 10 years ago to be honest (partly credit crunch and partly he doesn't work all hours anymore) although I assume that once I have asked for variance to be applied (and given good enough grounds for an investigation), then his tax returns can be looked at for a true reflection of his income? Would evidence of jobs in his area of expertise (currently showing at between £250 to £500 a day and available within a 50 mile radius of his home town) be enough to trigger an investigation of his income?

NACSA CHAIR, thanks again for the detailed info - he has two cars of his own - one classic Italian sports car and an "older" family car (his partner has her own car and flat, they both live in his house). He had a modest family holiday for 2 weeks in France with one his children and a skiing holiday with his partner this year plus numerous 'car' weekends. He also chose to take 2-3 months off earlier this year as an extended holiday at home. He doesn't lead a spectacularly lavish lifestyle though compared to many of his peers and colleagues.

I've now received the variance form in the post but I assume I have to wait for the interim assessment before sending it back? At the moment I don't have anything to dispute

Sou

kelloggs36

His tax returns can certainly be asked for! Trouble is, many (not all) self employed people don't declare their true earnings to the tax man either!

Soubrette

kelloggs36 wrote: »

His tax returns can certainly be asked for! Trouble is, many (not all) self employed people don't declare their true earnings to the tax man either!

Well I've had the assessment and apparently the poor soul earns less than my part time wage :rolleyes:

kelloggs, I've been in contact with the CSA for advice on variation and been told that they cannot look at his tax returns. Basically I have to fill out the forms giving what evidence I can (very little) and they will decide whether they have enough to proceed with a variation. This is extremely annoying as he is the type of self employed person who will exploit loopholes to the max but I do not believe would stray into tax evasion (although I would not have believed he'd be such a carp dad 4 years ago either :rolleyes: )

I have his company accounts for the last four years but because he is a small company he only has to submit an abbreviated balance sheet - he does not even have to submit a profit and loss statement for public record. I also have proof that he is the sole shareholder. There is talk of shareholding funds in the balance sheet but I've been told that all he has to say is that he doesn't take this as dividends and that will be the end of that.

As to lifestyle - even though his lifestyle is at variance with the £10,000 he says he earns a year, apparently he just has to say that his girlfriend supports him and then they will take it no further.

I'm at a loss as to what direct evidence I can gather, does anyone have any ideas - please pm me if you would feel more comfortable doing that.

Sou

mothballed

kelloggs36 wrote: »

His tax returns can certainly be asked for! Trouble is, many (not all) self employed people don't declare their true earnings to the tax man either!

I think you are probably right.

When I had my farm business, one of my employees (a mechanic) had a DEO. It was my bookkeeper who did my payroll (money matters are not my forte) and handled employee CSA matters. He quit shortly after and formed a Ltd company and continued to service my farm machinery as a contractor.

I was quite happy with this arrangement because I no longer need to pay his 12% employers NI contribs, he proivided his own liabity insurance and I am free to hire & fire at will.

Now after seeing your comment I can see what he was up to, I guess the CSA really did save me a few quid.

mitchaa

If i were you i'd stop wasting your time.

I think in % terms of a successful outcome for you it would likely be ITRO 0.0000000000000000000001%

Sorry, but its doubtful the CSA will do any more. His GF is supporting his lifestyle, how can you prove that she does not.

Soubrette

mitchaa wrote: »

If i were you i'd stop wasting your time.

I think in % terms of a successful outcome for you it would likely be ITRO 0.0000000000000000000001%

Sorry, but its doubtful the CSA will do any more. His GF is supporting his lifestyle, how can you prove that she does not.

Actually they could easily prove it - look at his tax returns and at his profit and loss statement (which according to companies house has to be filed with HMRC but as he is a small company is not on public record), if he'd committed fraud then fair enough - nothing to do with the CSA but if he hasn't then this will give the evidence of income that is required.

Sou