Providing identification

Broadback

Like many here I have been busy opening accounts recently. What bugs me is the identification system, supposed to prevent false accounts being opened by money launderers, do the law makers really think that professional criminals are going to have trouble falsifying these documents? No it is the normal law abiding people who have the problem. We pay our fuel bills annually, so can only produce the required bill for 3 months of any year, having opted for paperless BT bills, CC & bank statements these are not available either. I suspect that many people have neither passport nor driving licence either. So where does that leave them? I think, therefore I am, does not work for bureaucrats! I would not be happy sending my driving licence/passport by post, having a certified copy costs, plus delays. Will we eventually be confined to local saving establishments, often with lower interest rates? Any solutions please?
Why not a system that allows you to register for all such requirements?

cvd

I suspect each institution is legally responsible for the decisions it takes and so your suggestion is not possible.
Also, you are dangerously close to suggesting the government ID card scheme.

I do think every local building society where you have an account should be prepared to certify copies of documents for the use of other building societies free of charge. Perhaps we should have an organised campaign to get them to agree to this.

dunstonh

do the law makers really think that professional criminals are going to have trouble falsifying these documents?

identification is just one part of it. There is more to the process.

Even if you turn up with the right identification, the bank clerk can still report a suspecian and anyone turning up with a larger amount without an audit trail of where it has come from is just asking to be reported.

We pay our fuel bills annually, so can only produce the required bill for 3 months of any year

So you can produce a bill that is valid in the last 12 months. The requirement is the most recent so if it was issued 9 months ago for example, that is still fine. However, there is also water and council tax bills that are acceptable.

Credit card statements are not. Bank statements are.

I suspect that many people have neither passport nor driving licence either.

Having done this for 15 years it is very rare for someone not to have one of these, if not both. Money laundering check requirements only tend to be an issue for those that want it to be an issue.

Primrose

This process of opening new savings accounts is happening on a daily basis thoughout all financial institutuions. Surely it's not beyond their wit to set up a central database so that once a saver has been cleared for money laundering purposes with appropriate documentation, their name is added to the central database. Then all subscribing financial institutions could have access to it. It would save everybody a lot of hassle and dispense with the anxiety of precious original documents going astray in the post and the delay in setting up accounts. I don't work for a financial institutution so I can't claim a big Performance Bonus for coming up with this idea. As a Christmas goodwill gesture the institutions can have the idea for free if only some Chief Executive somewhere earning a fat salary would get off their backside and get something useful off the ground for their potential customers.

Aegis

Primrose wrote: »

This process of opening new savings accounts is happening on a daily basis thoughout all financial institutuions. Surely it's not beyond their wit to set up a central database so that once a saver has been cleared for money laundering purposes with appropriate documentation, their name is added to the central database. Then all subscribing financial institutions could have access to it. It would save everybody a lot of hassle and dispense with the anxiety of precious original documents going astray in the post and the delay in setting up accounts. I don't work for a financial institutution so I can't claim a big Performance Bonus for coming up with this idea. As a Christmas goodwill gesture the institutions can have the idea for free if only some Chief Executive somewhere earning a fat salary would get off their backside and get something useful off the ground for their potential customers.

There's already an electronic Identification and Verification of Address system set up to allow these details to be checked without the normal passport and utility bill requirement. However, it doesn't always generate a result, so the majority of new customers would be best advised to bring along appropriate documents just in case.

dunstonh

This process of opening new savings accounts is happening on a daily basis thoughout all financial institutuions. Surely it's not beyond their wit to set up a central database so that once a saver has been cleared for money laundering purposes with appropriate documentation

Whilst the electronic method already exists that does some of that, the system you propose would fall foul of data protection. Just because xyz bank has taken copies of the ID, doesnt mean they can supply those copies to abc bank for them to use.

Also, hard copy ID is only valid for a time period. Passports and photo driving licences are 10 years, council tax is valid for council tax year. Bills are valid for more recent one only as are bank statements.

LesU

It seems to me the major sticking point is the proof of identification, especially at a distance e.g. postal applications.
The banks usually want 2 forms of identification; who you are and where you live.

Where you live, even in these days of on-line bills, is usually able to be covered by something that you'd be happy to send away.(Unless of course your partner has all bills addressed to them).
Proof of ID seems to require a photo. As someone who doesn't have a photo driving licence, it rests on my passport to do the job. If I didn't have a passport I'm not sure what I'd do.
My Mother-in-Law waited until she was eligible for a bus pass before she could upgrade her savings account!
It seems that validation of identity in a Post Office using your passport (at more cost of time and money), is the only viable solution.
BTW an ID card would be just as useless as a passport in this case.
You wouldn't send your ID card off in an envelope surely?

p00hsticks

dunstonh wrote: »

The requirement is the most recent so if it was issued 9 months ago for example, that is still fine. .

In my experience most institutions say that the bills have to be no more than three months old - which is usually OK for utility bills, but means that council tax bills (which are usually annually) can only be used for three months of the year.

dunstonh wrote: »

Having done this for 15 years it is very rare for someone not to have one of these, if not both.

Believe me, there are plenty of us with no passports or driving licences out here ! Perhaps you aren''t aware of us because we try to avoid those organisations that say they have to see these documents......?

dunstonh wrote: »

Money laundering check requirements only tend to be an issue for those that want it to be an issue.

I've found that the main things are to a) be on the electoral register and b) have an up-to-date credit record. If the institution can see you on the electoral rol land do a credit check on you then that's usually enough. If not, then you can usually manage with a combination of bank statements and utility bills - you just need to make sure that you keep at least one bank account and one utility as paper billing rather than online for these circumstances

lkmc01

I have major problems too with providing ID.

I live in a uni halls of resisdence in a family flat.

I pay the uni rent 4 times a year. I do not have a electricity bill, water bill, gas bill, council tax bill or a landline. The address I have flat 5e has been renumbered from 5d by the university, but is the same flat. The flat is not registered with the postal service so when it asks you for your post code and number the flat is never recognised.

I also have 2 middle names, but banks either do not use either of them or only one.

So when I open a new account do I use only my first middle name as the statements only have this on. Do I use flat 5e or flat 5d.

Very confusing stuff

dunstonh

In my experience most institutions say that the bills have to be no more than three months old - which is usually OK for utility bills, but means that council tax bills (which are usually annually) can only be used for three months of the year.

That is their choice and not consistent with general standards. Any refusal to accept current year council tax bill, even if was 9 months later is a mistake by the person doing the processing. The requirement is most recent bill, even if annual.

Believe me, there are plenty of us with no passports or driving licences out here ! Perhaps you aren''t aware of us because we try to avoid those organisations that say they have to see these documents......?

I dont get any choice and deal with all sorts from all walks of life and never once has verifying ID been a major problem. Sometimes there has to have been a close struggle but never anything that has held up business. Providers dont need to see ID if the application was taken through an IFA. Its the IFA that has to see it. The IFA just sends the company a certificate to say we have verified the ID.

I've found that the main things are to a) be on the electoral register and b) have an up-to-date credit record. If the institution can see you on the electoral rol land do a credit check on you then that's usually enough. If not, then you can usually manage with a combination of bank statements and utility bills - you just need to make sure that you keep at least one bank account and one utility as paper billing rather than online for these circumstances

Whilst the credit score system is used in electronic money laundering checks, it isnt a credit score and does not show up as one. The scoring system works differently.

BT telephone is also good for electronic checks, unless you are unmarried and you are the one with the different surname than that on the bill. Electoral roll nearly always guarantees success.

Broadback

dunstonh wrote: »

That is their choice and not consistent with general standards. Any refusal to accept current year council tax bill, even if was 9 months later is a mistake by the person doing the processing. The requirement is most recent bill, even if annual.

That may be true, but if they do not accept them then as far as they are concerned that is the end if the matter.

I dont get any choice and deal with all sorts from all walks of life and never once has verifying ID been a major problem. Sometimes there has to have been a close struggle but never anything that has held up business. Providers dont need to see ID if the application was taken through an IFA. Its the IFA that has to see it. The IFA just sends the company a certificate to say we have verified the ID.

So how do you get registered with the IFA, and if so how, and how long does it last for?


Whilst the credit score system is used in electronic money laundering checks, it isn't a credit score and does not show up as one. The scoring system works differently.

True but if you don't have and never have had a debt then that seems (oddly) to count against you, as they seem to have no record.

BT telephone is also good for electronic checks, unless you are unmarried and you are the one with the different surname than that on the bill. Electoral roll nearly always guarantees success.

Being on the Electoral roll I can only say it has not worked in my wife's case. One is now encouraged to pay al bills on line, that includes BT . They also state that bills printed on line are not acceptable.

As regards these bills, that only applies to the person paying the bill, not other members of the household. No one has answered this yet with any watertight scheme yet, perhaps someone will.