Website Price !!!!-up - What are my rights?

blue_monkey_2

ispartacus75 wrote: »

Can I just ask if that is a legal or personal opinion?

Surely a contract exists as soon as the vendor has accepted the customers offer AND taken payment based on that offer?

Not opinion, it is legal and in almost all online retailers T&C. I trade online and this is the first line in the terms & conditions.

No contract will exist between you and xx for the sale until xx accepts your order by e-mail and confirms that it has dispatched your product.

A contract is made when the goods are dispatched so until that time either the customer or I can cancel the order. It is in most online retailers T&C I am afraid, they are written with the sole reason of making sure that an order can be cancelled if there is an error and any court will see this is a shopper tried to sue the retailer and the consumer would not have any case. Sure the shopper does not like it but we are human, humans make mistakes when pricing, that is life. It's a bummer not to get a bargain but this is why T&C exist.

I just checked the T&C of the w2w website - this is the first note on the T&C:
Our acceptance of an Order does not take place until dispatch of the Order, at which point a Contract will be made. w2w will send an email (in instances where a customer has provided an email address for correspondence) confirming despatch of the goods you have ordered and/or issue you with a unique order reference which may be advised via email or telephone as applicable.

You have to check you've read the T&C when placing an order so they should have been noted by the customer, the number of people who moan about it though show they do not read the T&C in full. It is usually point number 1 on the T&C that a contract does not exsist until dispatch - even if they have taken payment for it.

blue_monkey_2

Doc_N wrote: »

Despite some of the posts above, you have a contract here. You made an offer to buy, and they accepted. W2W then confirmed that acceptance by debiting your account. Clear contract.

Just try enforcing it, though - that's the tricky bit. W2W could end up regretting this, though, considering the number of people they've upset and all the bad publicity now hitting the net.

Sorry, you are totally wrong, there is nothing to 'enforce' and this is why you should read all T&C BEFORE placing an order. There is no 'Clear Contact' and you would look a fool in court if you said this. So w2w could end up 'regretting it' and 'everyone is upset' because they did not get a 'bargain' on something that they probably did not 'need' as a matter of life or death but wanted because it was cheap. Please, aren't there more important things to be worrying about instead of moaning about things you clearly know nothing about.

Again and as noted above, here is point 1 of the T&C on w2w website:

Our acceptance of an Order does not take place until dispatch of the Order, at which point a Contract will be made. w2w will send an email (in instances where a customer has provided an email address for correspondence) confirming despatch of the goods you have ordered and/or issue you with a unique order reference which may be advised via email or telephone as applicable.

Please note the word DISPATCH. It would be worthwhile to note at this point that you should ALWAYS always always read the T&C before placing any order online and if you have not read No1 have you managed to get to the end? Otherwise you could be signing up to anything (ie. Redsave or Visaprint and their monthly 'subscription' schemes!!!!!!!)

Most Payment Gateways are set up so funds are debited straightaway - I used to use Paypal on my website but now I do not as I process payments manually so people do not have to pay before their goods are ready to be dispatched. However, this is the only way I can do this, all other gateways process the payments for me the minute the customer submits an order. This is why the cards are debited and this is why the T&C state that a contract is formed when an order is DISPATCHED.

chuckles1066

blue_monkey wrote: »

Not opinion, it is legal and in almost all online retailers T&C. I trade online and this is the first line in the terms & conditions.

No contract will exist between you and xx for the sale until xx accepts your order by e-mail and confirms that it has dispatched your product.

And your t&c's will also include the phrase "your statutory rights are not affected" yes?

Ergo, you can put what you want in your t&c's but if a customer offers to buy goods from you and you accept by debiting his or her credit/debit card, a legally binding contract has been formed.

It's sixth form legal studies stuff.

blue_monkey_2

Well go argue that in a court of law and you'll find out. You can look at every single retailer online and every single one says the same thing. This is because the T&C are drawn up by solicitors to ensure that a retailer falls on the right side of the law in cases such as these.

In an ideal world the payments would not be done straightaway (as noted, mine do not but only because I have to process them manually and I pay extra for being able to do this) all over Gateways process payments for you - so if you want to argue over that then the retailer is not the one with the money - this comes later on - so it would be the Gateway processor that you have 'paid', the Gateway Processor then pays the Retailer. And this can take anything from a week to a month. To refund you hit a button to cancel the transaction so the Gateway Processor reverses the transaction. As in the case of Paypal - paypal is the one that has the money until the retailer 'withdraws' it. Hence it will state 'Paypal' on your bank statement.

But then you know this already surely.....

chuckles1066

blue_monkey wrote: »

Well go argue that in a court of law and you'll find out. But then you know this already surely.....

Been there and done it, the basic definition of how and when a contract has been formed between consumer and retailer is, as I said, taught at sixth form level.

Smart suited lawyers can't change it..........irrespective of how much they've stung you for drawing up your terms and conditions.

Feeling a bit stupid yet?

Maybe you should post your trading website address so we can all avoid it?

dmg24

Thank you blue_monkey for sticking to your point, and providing thorough explanations to back it up.

I have given up on giving legal advice on here, as there is always some (self confessed) A Level Law student that thinks they know it all, and then resorts to insults because they cannot substantiate their point.

blue_monkey_2

Bloody Firefox. 2 messages it has deleted. I was going to answer longer than this but now I cannot be bothered, I've already missed Holby trying to answer.

As I say, I have nothing to worry about as I do not charge on order so there would be no reason to avoid my site - if I was to cancel no money had exchanged hands anyway. As I said, if you had read, someone got a bargain yesterday as I mispriced something. If I can honour it I will, my mistake. Would I honour 100 orders though? No, but their cards would not get charged.

You can find my website if you look hard enough - and I could do with some publicity this time of year!! Thank you!!

Thanks DMG, as I said, I was going to argue over it, Firefox did me a favour by going back rather than posting!!

ispartacus75

Thanks for the reply and your explanantion Blue Monkey. I noted with interest your comments on T&C. I would however just point out that because it is T&C doesnt neccessarily make it legal or mean that it would stand up in court, though I cant give examples of where this has been tested, simply through lack of any research.

chuckles1066

blue_monkey wrote: »

You can find my website if you look hard enough - and I could do with some publicity this time of year!! Thank you!!

All you have to do is post it here; free publicity, can't be bad?

Of course, everyone will know from your postings that you're a "hide behind my terms and conditions" merchant but, hey, what the heck?

Please post your site address, it's a few keypresses?

dmg24

chuckles1066 wrote: »

All you have to do is post it here; free publicity, can't be bad?

Of course, everyone will know from your postings that you're a "hide behind my terms and conditions" merchant but, hey, what the heck?

Please post your site address, it's a few keypresses?

blue_monkey knows that free publicity is against the rules of MSE.

blue_monkey, I didn't realise that was your shop (even an A Level student should be able to find that)!