Benefit claimants 'must do more'

Horace

I think that once a child reaches school age (5) that the mother should return to work even if it is part time work. If you have teenagers, then you would work full time.

There is no denying that there are people out there who are 'professional' benefit scroungers as they come from families who have never worked and have always lived off benefits. Why should they stay at home all day?

I have hated being on the dole and have with their help set up my own business, I don't sign on at the jobcentre anymore but at my local chamber of commerce who have already told me to not return to the dole after my test-trading period but to claim working tax credit instead - I have no intention of folding my business and going back on the dole.

The government needs to change other things too like stop giving benefits to every immigrant that arrives on our shores - this is why they come because they know they will be fed, watered, housed, have medical treatment etc at our expense. They also need to change the mindset of those individuals who work in the jobcentres so that if someone is offered a job - even if it is a temporary post and part time that they shouldn't turn round and say "you are better off staying on the dole". This has happened to a friend of mine who wanted to work, he is now in his part time job and hopefully it will become permanent - he had to argue that he wanted to work and needed to work even if only to get back some self-respect.

Unfortunately, this idea of the government has come too late but it is certainly a good idea to make people work for their benefits. Some people have a really easy life on benefits from what I can see whereas I have had to struggle these past 17 months but then I don't have any kids to boost my income and I don't know how to play the system because I didnt learn to do that when I was at school unlike a lot of people that you see on benefits today.

Little_Git

poker_face wrote: »

they are not providing anything and that is the point.

And the rich are very much attacked, do you know how much tax they have to pay compare to the poor. not a bad thing in my opinion, its hardly slave labour. The idea is to stop people who arent deserving benefits, not hinder those who do.

"If benefit fraud is "theft", then so is tax evasion. The difference is that the former is committed by the weakest and most vulnerable of society, while the latter is committed by the richest and the most powerful, and costs the country tens of billions of pounds in illegally withheld revenue.According to the DWP, the government lost around £900m in "benefit theft" in 2005, but HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), when asked how much the government was missing out in terms of lost revenue from tax evasion, said that "it is not possible to quantify a negative figure".

However, Treasury papers leaked in June last year reveal that the government estimates a staggering annual loss of between £97bn and £150bn to tax theft, representing an appalling 8% to 12% of the nation's GDP.

With such massive government losses to white-collar criminality dwarfing the "benefit theft" figure you would expect that the intensity of deterrence campaigns would be heavily weighted towards tax theft rather than benefit theft. Sadly, this is not the case." http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jan/10/comment.society


http://www.visit4info.com/advert/DWP-But-Department-for-Work-and-Pensions-DWP/42320

kpnut79

Little_Git wrote: »

"If benefit fraud is "theft", then so is tax evasion. The difference is that the former is committed by the weakest and most vulnerable of society, while the latter is committed by the richest and the most powerful, and costs the country tens of billions of pounds in illegally withheld revenue.According to the DWP, the government lost around £900m in "benefit theft" in 2005, but HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), when asked how much the government was missing out in terms of lost revenue from tax evasion, said that "it is not possible to quantify a negative figure".

However, Treasury papers leaked in June last year reveal that the government estimates a staggering annual loss of between £97bn and £150bn to tax theft, representing an appalling 8% to 12% of the nation's GDP.

With such massive government losses to white-collar criminality dwarfing the "benefit theft" figure you would expect that the intensity of deterrence campaigns would be heavily weighted towards tax theft rather than benefit theft. Sadly, this is not the case." http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jan/10/comment.society


http://www.visit4info.com/advert/DWP-But-Department-for-Work-and-Pensions-DWP/42320

At the end of the day theft is theft whether it be benefit or tax!

So rather pick and choose the between the two, they should be dealt with equally!!

You are very defensive with regards to this subject, so are you a benefit claimant yourself?

At the end of the day, if you want to have your kids then provide for them don't expect everyone else, yes there are exceptional circumstances like with everything, seperations, disabilities etc... but maybe if or when this comes into force it will give all the 16, 17 years olds something to think about, not just the usual attitudes that if I have a baby, I get free money, a free house etc etc.

If I ever thought my daughter would have a baby for that reason I would be ashamed and devastated..yes accidents happen don't get me wrong but at least I can hold my head and say you have this child you provide for it.

I'm not saying I have never claimed benefits because I have, I still claimed income support to top up my earnings from 12 hours a week work whilst my daughter was in nursery, who is now 10!

So instead of whinging beat the system and get off your !!!!!! willingly and get a job, you never know you might actually enjoy it, lose weight, make new friends...just generally be alot happier in your life!!

DirectDebacle

Some interesting points made here. It is rather patronising and somewhat over-simplistic to say to someone 'get off your a*rse' and get a job. With unemployment at 1.8m and set to dramatically rise and govt. stats showing around 0.5m vacancies these remarks are usually made from someone who, at the moment, has a job. One wonders if in 6 or 9 months time when some of these people are made unemployed and seeking state help if they will be saying the same thing.

Statements such as 'do you know how much we rich pay in tax' bandied about. Basic rate tax payers (the majority of tax payers) pay less as a proportion of tax the more they earn.

When the 10p tax rate was abolished in April this year made someone on £12500 pa £126.30 worse off and someone on £25000 pa.(about the national avge wage) £123.70 better off. After the govt tried to put this right the lower earner was £6.30 worse off and the £25k earner was £243 better off. New Labour and a new way of re-distributing wealth. No wonder the gap between rich and poor is increasing. As it does it seems the contempt the 'haves' hold for the 'have nots' increases at a similar rate.

The welfare system is there for all. Some will abuse it, that is a given. Most are in it and out of it for short periods and are no doubt grateful that this safety net exists. Those fortunate enough never to have to take advantage of it should consider themselves lucky and not denigrate those less fortunate than themselves.

My income is slightly more than the 12.5k example. I do not claim benefits. Neither do I look down on those that do nor do I complain about those that take advantage of the system even though they do not need it. High earners who claim child benefit are an example.

We used to be known as a nation with a sense of fair play and tolerance. I wonder if we still are.

s1ddo71

I agree Direct, I have been out of work for 18 months now and having been on a job-search/resource centre programme after 6 months on JSA, which was useful as it made me search for work and not have to incur the expense of posting CV's, letters etc if they needed to sent that way to companies. They didn't give me much support though as there was only 1 person looking after about 20 of us until they employed someone else who looked over every ones CV except mine though this was near the end of my 13 weeks time last Xmas and I wasn't too bothered about that. Then in late spring this year went onto a two week retailing course as we had the big Highcross development in Leicester opening in the September and I was really positive about it and by going on the course it secured me a place at one of the John Lewis (who were providing a major share of the jobs) selection days, which I thought I did well at but I never got a reply back from them as all of us there were promised (I obviously didn't gain employment with them) and still didn't even after contacting them 3 times.

The main problem was that there was 2,000 jobs in total at the Highcross but about 15,000 people applied for them and the only reply I did get was from the new cinema in the complex where 5,000 people applied for 200 jobs and I didn't even get an interview due to the number of people applying as about 2,000 got interviews. Thats the problem nowadays as a lot of companies are not responding to every applicant to vacancies.

I will be going on to New Deal in the new year so I hope my situation will get better though in the current economic climate I'm not that confident it will. I also saw in another thread that someone said people do not need to claim benefits as there are ALG (Adult Learning Grants) available as the poster had done part time learning(didn't say they were claiming it though) but having looked at the website for it, it's only £30 max per week, half the amount of JSA and you can't claim it if you are on JSA and it said it could affect housing benefit/council tax benefit, hardly an incentive to learn then unless you are on 'in work benefits' or others that are not excluding you from claiming it or in part time work. Also it's supposed to be like the failed EMA for books, stationery etc costs with the course, so how could I pay bills on that money? I spend £7.50 a week just on electricity.

DirectDebacle

It is a shame. You and hundred of thousands like you are doing all you can to find work. Without wanting to dampen your enthusiasm I can only see matters becoming worse for the job market. It will continue to shrink as the recession bites deeper and the number of unemployed will swell. The govt. does much manipulation to take people off the unemployment figures. There is talk of unemployment reaching 3m. If the truth were known we are probably already there.

I wish you luck in your job search and hope you will soon be back at work.

LizzieS_2

Little_Git wrote: »

Why should anyone have to work for their benefits. If people have to work for their benefits, then why not work for your NHS health care once you have recovered and come out of hospital?

It's always the poor who are attacked never the rich. Why should the poor be subjected to slave labour? If there is work to be done then pay a proper wage, at the very least the minimum wage rate.

Considering how many 10's of thousands some have already had without ever paying into the system, it could be said they are earning for what they took out.

raccoon_2

I wish I got benifits but I dont. I started working in 1969, then it was easy to hop job to job till you found one that you liked. I was made redundant in April this year after being with the same company for over 25 years. So being out of the jobseekers market for a long time made it quit hard to do things like letters for jobs and my CV took me weeks to prepare.
I got jobseekers allowance for 26 weeks @£60:50p a week. After that I have not got a penny. No allowances at all and no way the council will give me a discount on my POLL TAX. If I got offered a fiddle job I would take it. The reason........I have applied for over 100 jobs and only had replies to FOUR. I have even tried putting Stamped self addressed evelopes in my application and got no reply, I think this tells you the way the HR departments treat people.
I want to retrain and do work in "IT" but all you get of the jobcentre is "there is no money in the funds". If that is the case, how are all the people going to get training to find alternative jobs. Another two faced government statement that is rubbish.
I have been told that I have to travel UP TO ONE HOUR on public transport to find work. That would be a cost of at least £6 each way when I worked out how far to go.
On the bright side though, I can claim the cost of a pair of shoes and a new suite to go for interviews. As long as its within reason and I have the reciept.
You can also get up to £200 when you start work again.
Even though I am 55, I want to work, but I will not work for a pittance. I will do a full days work for a full days pay.

Horace

Unfortunately, we only have ourselves to blame because some of us voted in this stupid labour government. The last time they were in power they did the same thing and wrecked this country, I can remember the power cuts and other horrid stuff. Let's hope they call a general election so that we can oust them for something better.

The jobcentre do make life difficult for people who are claiming though, I can remember once daring to ask if I could sign on early (I had just had eye surgery and my chap had driven up from London to take me out for the day - not an excuse but it would have made life easier), after much grumbling I was granted permission so I signed on earlier in the day instead of lunchtime. I was then given a lecture about timekeeping because I had demonstrated to them that I could not keep appointments and told me to come back and see someone upstairs who would haul me over the coals for poor timekeeping. I went back on the day that I had been told to see this woman and turned up 5 mins early so I had to wait, well I didn't mind waiting 5 minutes but certainly did mind waiting the extra half an hour. Needless to say when I got to see her she got short shrift for keeping me waiting and that they had dared to lecture me on timekeeping when hers was appalling! I never had an apology.

Thankfully, I don't have to venture into the jobcentre any more because I do my signing on at the chamber of commerce when I visit my business mentor once a fortnight.

jenie_2

raccoon wrote: »

I wish I got benifits but I dont. I started working in 1969, then it was easy to hop job to job till you found one that you liked. I was made redundant in April this year after being with the same company for over 25 years. So being out of the jobseekers market for a long time made it quit hard to do things like letters for jobs and my CV took me weeks to prepare.
I got jobseekers allowance for 26 weeks @£60:50p a week. After that I have not got a penny. No allowances at all and no way the council will give me a discount on my POLL TAX. If I got offered a fiddle job I would take it. The reason........I have applied for over 100 jobs and only had replies to FOUR. I have even tried putting Stamped self addressed evelopes in my application and got no reply, I think this tells you the way the HR departments treat people.
I want to retrain and do work in "IT" but all you get of the jobcentre is "there is no money in the funds". If that is the case, how are all the people going to get training to find alternative jobs. Another two faced government statement that is rubbish.
I have been told that I have to travel UP TO ONE HOUR on public transport to find work. That would be a cost of at least £6 each way when I worked out how far to go.
On the bright side though, I can claim the cost of a pair of shoes and a new suite to go for interviews. As long as its within reason and I have the reciept.
You can also get up to £200 when you start work again.
Even though I am 55, I want to work, but I will not work for a pittance. I will do a full days work for a full days pay.

racoon, my husband is in the same boat as you, he is 56 and was made redundant early this year. His cont.based JSA has now stopped, and he has been told he does not qualify for income based JSA because I have a part time job, and we have an adult son living at home, therefore we are not entitled to any benefits at all.
My earnings cover our mortgage and little else, if it wasn't for our son keeping us afloat paying for our food and utilities, I don't know what we would do, my husband is a proud man and feels humiliated taking handouts from our son, who is left with very little after he has helped us out.

We live in an area were there have been hundreds of redundancies, my husband looks for work every day. He has joined agencies but hasn't had any work as there are so many other younger men to pick from. We feel his age is his stumbling block. He has applied for countless posts and only had one reply (thankyou for that B&Q).

We just hope the new year brings us a bit of luck.