Newspapers and the economy

lostinrates

MSE_Martin wrote: »

To defend my fellow journalists for a second.

Every year we get British Retail Consortium in the run up to Christmas announcing how dire it is for the high street and how help is needed. Frankly I always take it with a pinch of salt, but the news outlets have to follow this. So it is swings and roundabouts.

Truth is the economy is nose-diving though and people need to be warned and told to be careful and take precautions. The balance is difficult as I wrote in this blog http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2008/11/24/should-this-site-be-closed-for-the-recession/ and journalists need to be responsible.

Yet do remember are we really saying my colleagues who work in news shouldnt print whats happening due to the impact. (As a side note, this is slightly different to causing the problem e.g. causing a run on the bank, this is reporting somethign thats actually happening).

Martin

How exciting you are joining in Martin....though can't blame you for checking up on us

On topic now, I understand from my regular 'high end retail mole' that things are not great for their particular corner of high-end street and that this person expects some New Year redundancies. And that I shouldn't expect a Christmas present.

I think as rgard media responsibility, its always been divided between consumers and advertisers, and there have often been conflicting stories in the same papers. I don't see that misguiding or not informing the public of contrasting opinions should be stopped. I think more than anything this must teach us to educate ourselves as much as we can, read a variety of sources for advice and no that the buck for our decisions ultimately rests with us.

fc123

MSE_Martin wrote: »

To defend my fellow journalists for a second.

Truth is the economy is nose-diving though and people need to be warned and told to be careful and take precautions. The balance is difficult as I wrote in this blog http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2008/11/24/should-this-site-be-closed-for-the-recession/ and journalists need to be responsible.

Martin

From the perspective of an independent, clothing retailer for 2 decades (that's me) , something else is also playing out on the UK High St (or, rather, shopping mall + out of town park) right now.
The drop is being blamed solely on the downturn in consumer spending, due to several things; the lack of credit available, those maxed out already, job losses/insecurity etc.

The last decade has seen a huge increase in the amount of outlets and stuff available at ever lower prices (in real terms)...plus prices going down every year.

Many couldn't fit another item into their home if they wanted to.

Then things get a little tighter, or the news (banking crisis; for example) worry you a little.......and you then look around the house or peer into the closet and discover that, you really don't need much more of anything for quite a while.

The clothing sector is painful, dominated by chains all ''google designing'', all manufacturing in the same Far East Factories, in the same types of fabrics, offering similar versions of the same thing (?).
They also pay for placement in all the mags to tell us what we want. That used to the preserve of fashion editors...now they are full of ads disguised as 'ideas'.
All the niche stuff is getting priced out of Real Life Land shops as they cannot compete on margin, though their T/O may be equal to their chainstore neighbours.

The sameiness is becoming tiring...hence the rise in online sales, where more unusual products can be sourced.
'The Long Tale' by Chris Anderson' believes the future is selling less of more and the internet has enabled this trend.

Simply, there is now way too much samey stuff out there now for us all to purchase and consume, even if we wanted it and could afford it all.

The BRC are always dooming before Xmas..this year they got it right but many consumers are challenging the whole ''spend/consume' trend of the past decade as 'Thrift' is becoming the new mainstream thing.


2 trends working at the same time; economic downturn plus a new feeling of thrift amongst some of the population will, in time equal less shops and less stuff.

neverdespairgirl

scousethife wrote: »

Im not a bird, I dont need to agonise over how I look

Do you care if your shoes don't fit, though? Or your pants are too tight?

Davesnave

The Northern Rock debacle was one situation where neither the media nor the government seemed to have their act together.

I remember watching the huge queues on TV and saying to DW: 'Why the heck doesn't Darling or someone get out there and explain in simple terms to these people that their money is safe?' I don't think those who queued were just people with more than £32k (the FSCS protected amount at that time.) The bulletins I watched made no mention of the compensation scheme for a couple of days, maybe because the panic was such a good story. If someone had suggested most of those frantic people were worrying for nothing it would have dulled the edge somewhat.

The government line just focused on Northern Rock being safe!

The only reason I already knew about the FSCS protection was that I'd read the info on MSE page about savings accounts. Before the Northern Rock affair, the FSCS and its compensation scheme was sarcely mentioned anywhere. That all seems a long time ago now!

m1ntie

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

I don't do Christmas food shopping - except nipping out on Christmas Eve to get extra milk and bread. We stay with my parents, and they do it (-:

Hi NDG

I am aware from your previous posts that you are of the Jewish faith. I have Jewish and other non-christian friends who also celebrate Christmas.

It is interesting how Christmas seems to have become an almost "universal" mid winter festival that everyone can enjoy regardless of religious belief.

Davesnave

2 trends working at the same time; economic downturn plus a new feeling of thrift amongst some of the population will, in time equal less shops and less stuff.

fc, what you say about the rag trade rings so many bells. On first thinking about it, clothes and plants don't apprear to have much in common, but what you describe is close to our experience.

When we started the nursery business, it was a relative boom time for perennial plants, as the fashion had swung towards more relaxed, informal garden planting, while beds of annuals were seen as something amateurish old pensioners did. Realising this, and seeing that the garden centres were unadventurous, DW and I set out to carve ourselves a little niche business.
We grew many plants which couldn't be found in the garden 'outlets' and, for eight or ten years, that worked well.

Eventually, however, the big chains caught on to the change in fashion and our 'rekkies' saw more and more interesting, unusual plants turning up in the large retail outlets. At the same time, we also noticed more people complaining that they couldn't fit any more of our plants into their gardens!
While our 'Real Life' stall looked better than ever, because we could always compete on price and quality, takings were peaking. There were also too many baby boomers, like ourselves, coming into the business as early retirees with a paying hobby.

In our last year or two, we discounted our prices heavily and did well, but it was a case of going for broke really. We'd already noticed how resistant customers were becoming to spending on non-essentials as far back as 2005.
We closed last year and, since doing so, have heard many others grumbling and suggesting they might do likewise. I dare say the hobbyists will keep going, as will the garden centre chains, but many of them have already scaled-back on plants, because they make more on sundries & tat. All in all, it will result in a reduction of choice.

Another trend is also becoming apparent, if my road is anything to go by, and that's vegetables replacing flowers in front gardens; a definite sign of the times!

MrDT

m1ntie wrote: »

Hi NDG

I am aware from your previous posts that you are of the Jewish faith. I have Jewish and other non-christian friends who also celebrate Christmas.

It is interesting how Christmas seems to have become an almost "universal" mid winter festival that everyone can enjoy regardless of religious belief.

It's not really a Christian celebration though is it? Winter festivals predate Christianity. I think most of the Christmas symbolism is derived from Paganism, the tree, mistletoe, etc - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule.

Most faiths will have a midwinter celebration, and will have done way before the little baby Jesus appeared. Maybe Chrisitians are a bit "full of themselves" at times, seem to think it's all about them? Happy Kwanzaa

setmefree2

fc123 wrote: »

2 trends working at the same time; economic downturn plus a new feeling of thrift amongst some of the population will, in time equal less shops and less stuff.

What a fascinating post. I would have quoted it all but it would be a bit long:D.

I have been wondering this very same thing myself. Are we actually seeing the end of an era? Everyone now has what they want (although I could just be speaking for myself here LOL) - clothes, house furnishings, garden plants, etc and the oil spike/ credit crunch was a catalyst for a fundemental shift in attitude to consumption? Is this market saturation?

Have the Western markets been flooded to the extent that they are now saturated?

Must say, some of my friends think that people still want to consume lots and that people will end up angry and frustrated in a recession because they can't consume?

Interesting.

Cannon_Fodder

Not quite everything they want...

In a cut-price store a couple of days ago, a chav was on her mobile asking "do you wanna Christmas plate for 49p, Mum paid 99p..."

m1ntie

MrDT wrote: »

It's not really a Christian celebration though is it? Winter festivals predate Christianity. I think most of the Christmas symbolism is derived from Paganism, the tree, mistletoe, etc - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule.

Most faiths will have a midwinter celebration, and will have done way before the little baby Jesus appeared. Maybe Chrisitians are a bit "full of themselves" at times, seem to think it's all about them? Happy Kwanzaa

Exactly my point, for all except the most devout Christians, Christmas has reverted to its origins of mid winter festival. Although I would hope that some of the Christmas message of " peace and goodwill to all men" still manages to survive.

Anyway, to get back on topic, it is good for trade.