Does the FTSE reflect the house market

kennyboy66_2

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

If you have a diesel car you can walk into a supermarket instead of the petrol station and (at least partially, some cars totally) use cooking oil to fuel the car.
Obviously check your facts before you do this, however it is a reality today

A few potential problems.

1) It would cause some damage to most diesel engines, as vegetable oil is more viscous than diesel.
2) In cold weather vegetable oil can set like wax (try putting a bottle of vegetable oil in your fridge). Great for your fuel filters.
3) You are still liable for excise duty - police impunded cars last year.

sabretoothtigger

Yea only some cars can take it neat, older ones apparently. But I heard every car can take at least 5% per tank.

You can refine it at home with household gear and even use free waste oil from a chippie but that sounds like hassle but very green!

Duty laws were relaxed, previously fuel duty was payable but now its not so long as your consumption is below business amounts.
Im not sure about vat because I presume there is none or only a reduced amount paid on cooking oil.
Theres established recycling groups who would know this for sure and the other details

Generali

kennyboy66 wrote: »

Excrement can also be used in the tanning process for leather.

I thought it was urine that can be used in tanning. Isn't the surname Fuller derived from the job that was collecting urine like Thatcher was derived from a roofer (or was that 'eater of babies'?)? If so, I guess a Fuller takes the p1ss.

neverdespairgirl

Tanning often involved both urine and feces (usually dog, I think). The urine helped get the mank and hair out of a fresh skin, and the dog poo was used, often with animal brains, to turn the skin into leather.

In medieval times, I don't know about earlier periods or other cultures, fulling used fuller's earth. The cloth was stretched out, and the fuller's earth stamped in by people's feet, or (an early industialisation process) water mills. That got rid of the oils, and I think it made the cloth thicker, as well. No poo used, though, as far as I know. You couldn't dye wool until the oils etc had been washed out.

It also "felted" the cloth, making it denser, warmer, and much less likely to fray.

Fulling mills were established in the UK by monastic orders, in the main - the Knights Templar had several.

Lots of English surnames refer to medieval trades - the obvious, such as Baker, Butcher, and Thatcher, and ones which don't exist any more, such as Fletcher (arrow-maker) Cooper (barrel maker) and Wainwright (wagon maker).

purch

You are still liable for excise duty - police impunded cars last year

Just use Red Diesel :eek: ............there's plenty of it around these parts !!!!

TDS_2

I love this graph - it's upheld as the voice of reason, "Oil will run out, and anarchy will ensue". The projection (everytime it's produced) shows a steady decline starting now (now being 1970s/80s/or 2004 in this example(!)). Based on what? Based on the theory that there is a finite amount of oil (true), and that we must have reached peak oil by now (says who?).

Don't fret, I'm not gonna pretend that oil won't run out if we continue to use it at current levels (of course it will). But:

1. No one knows when that time will come (the graph is pure fantasy - the downside may be in 1 year, it may be in 50)
2. As oil becomes more expensive (as we have already experienced in the mid 70s and earlier this year) other sources of fuel become more viable (as do the 'hard to reach' sources of oil - tar sands). Renewables have already become significantly cheaper, and it only takes a small increase in the price of Fossils for parity to be reached.

I'm not suggesting that this switch will be swift or indeed painless, but it will happen, and there's no obvious reason why life as we know it will suddenly end.

kennyboy66_2

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

Tanning often involved both urine and feces (usually dog, I think). The urine helped get the mank and hair out of a fresh skin, and the dog poo was used, often with animal brains, to turn the skin into leather.

You are of course right, although I think human faeces was used by some cultures.

Apparently the historic use of night soil is why almost all Chinese food is cooked rather than eaten raw.
Come to think of it, I have never seen a salad in a chinese restaurant.

ad9898_3

TDS wrote: »

I love this graph - it's upheld as the voice of reason, "Oil will run out, and anarchy will ensue". The projection (everytime it's produced) shows a steady decline starting now (now being 1970s/80s/or 2004 in this example(!)). Based on what? Based on the theory that there is a finite amount of oil (true), and that we must have reached peak oil by now (says who?).

Don't fret, I'm not gonna pretend that oil won't run out if we continue to use it at current levels (of course it will). But:

1. No one knows when that time will come (the graph is pure fantasy - the downside may be in 1 year, it may be in 50)
2. As oil becomes more expensive (as we have already experienced in the mid 70s and earlier this year) other sources of fuel become more viable (as do the 'hard to reach' sources of oil - tar sands). Renewables have already become significantly cheaper, and it only takes a small increase in the price of Fossils for parity to be reached.

I'm not suggesting that this switch will be swift or indeed painless, but it will happen, and there's no obvious reason why life as we know it will suddenly end.

Read the bit underneath the graph TDS, it does state the downside will not be smooth, but down it will go, head in the sand wont make any difference, peak discovery was in 1960, since then we have been using more than we find, at present we use 4 for every 1 discovered. This is a fact that can't be disputed.

And just like a boat, if it takes on 4 times more water than is being bailed out, it will sink, no amount of saying it won't will make any difference. There is currently nothing on the horizon that is as transportable or as energy dense as oil.

Why do you think fuel was nearly £1.40 a litre in the summer ?, ironically we were only saved from even higher prices by the banking crisis.

That facts were, demand was outstripping supply and wind, solar, tar sands, hydrogen, tidal, wave etc......... weren't filling any gap.

Generali

ad9898 wrote: »

Read the bit underneath the graph TDS, it does state the downside will not be smooth, but down it will go, head in the sand wont make any difference, peak discovery was in 1960, since then we have been using more than we find, at present we use 4 for every 1 discovered. This is a fact that can't be disputed.

And just like a boat, if it takes on 4 times more water than is being bailed out, it will sink, no amount of saying it won't will make any difference. There is currently nothing on the horizon that is as transportable or as energy dense as oil.

Why do you think fuel was nearly £1.40 a litre in the summer ?, ironically we were only saved from even higher prices by the banking crisis.

That facts were, demand was outstripping supply and wind, solar, tar sands, hydrogen, tidal, wave etc......... weren't filling any gap.

My belief is that human ingenuity will fill the gap, after all it always has in the past. Peak oil is in many ways just Malthus all over again. That oil is a finite resource and thus cannot be used infinitely is irrefutable. That the result of that fact is mass starvation is conjecture and incorrect to my mind.

Cannon_Fodder

Must be a good thing to switch from oil/synthetics, maybe it will help with problems like;

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/the-worlds-rubbish-dump-a-garbage-tip-that-stretches-from-hawaii-to-japan-778016.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch


Its certainly going to require a dramatic shift in habits, expectations, demands, wants, technologies etc, though.

But I'm sure, like Generali, that ingenuity can prevail - although I am also sure that companies will find a way to gouge the consumer for solving problems the Co's often made in the first place.

Taxing the consumer for buying unnecessary tat should be one of the steps to change attitudes.


To keep OT, the FTSE will recover before the housing market.