JSA (IB) refused - Rental income too much, yet no money to live on! Advice welcomed.

ceridwen

LizzieS wrote: »

Not just you. Strange to see two dyslexic women with fine art degrees in such a short space of time.

OP, for job ideas, I suggest looking through the thread by Tatieirregular.

The snag to that is that Tatie had to withdraw her thread because of all the "unhelpful" comments that were made by various posters.....

Oldernotwiser

KoalaElf wrote: »

I think maybe you need to try and see the best in people a little more rather than trying to trip someone up about their story on a whim that they might be making it up. If indeed I had gone to the trouble of making all that up, then I think I would have had the nous to read back over what I had written and make sure my story added up, although why anyone would *bother* with the hassle of all that perplexes me. I assume there are people who do that on this forum? Or are you naturally suspicious of peoples intentions?

.

Unfortunately there are many people on the forum who do just this. They turn up with different usernames and think that other people won't make connections. I don't know why they do it but it happens frequently.

briona

p1an0player wrote: »

ouch, a card costing more than half the hourly minimum wage?

I apologise if I have offended you by apparently alienating lower earners with "pricey" cards. It was simply intended as a possible money-making suggestion for the OP.

Personally I think £3 a card is quite reasonable – this is the price many factory-made cards sell for in Clinton Cards and the like, and I've seen handmade cards in other shops going for anything up to £8! The shops I had in mind for the OP to sell cards in are, dare I say it, slightly higher-end shops (which Bath in particular is known for), where if money was tight, you would be most unlikely to shop anyway!

real1314

KoalaElf wrote: »

I think maybe you need to try and see the best in people a little more rather than trying to trip someone up about their story on a whim that they might be making it up. If indeed I had gone to the trouble of making all that up, then I think I would have had the nous to read back over what I had written and make sure my story added up, although why anyone would *bother* with the hassle of all that perplexes me. I assume there are people who do that on this forum? Or are you naturally suspicious of peoples intentions?

As for your explanations re. what the DWP deduce about my income, you are essentially telling me exactly what they have said although they calculate my weekly income to be £221 p/w. I have no idea how they arrived at that number, but here the mysterious workings of the DWP prevail and no one I speak to there will explain it. I guess they think if you know too much you will find a way to 'work' the system.

Let me know if you have any helpful info to help me out of this situation. I will be acting on the suggestions mentioned by others, and i'm sure your input would be useful.

Ok, well as I said before my suspicions were wrong. I give a decent amount of advice on here, but sometimes people do make things up and it ends up with confusing info being posted that might mislead others. Posting that you are on a fixed rate and that your costs have gone up was contradictory and didn't make sense. But i did ask for the other info in an attempt to help.

As far as the assesment of your income is concerned, my figures were incorrect as they were for "Board and Lodge" rather than just "Lodge", the former has a £20 per tenant disregard then half of the remainder, but "Lodge" only just has a £20 disregard then what's left is treated as income, so it should be around £66 x 3 = £198 a week.

On the positive side, as they are treating your mortage as residential, you woud be eligible for the interest to be paid once you've completed the qualifying period, which is 39 weeks, but is to be reduced to 13 weeks from jan 2009, although the full details of how it will work (13 weeks on from jan 2009 or will anyone who's waited 13 weeks by jan 2009 get it straight away?) have not yet been confirmed. They won't cover anything towards repayment though. However, your income may affect the interest payments:-

They've calculated your income as £211 a month, your mortgage is £150k. They use a standard interest rate which iirc is about 6% at the moment and has been temporarily held at that rate. This would give a weekly interest of £173. You can then add your own "personal allowance" of £60.50 to give a total required income of £233.50, so based on these figures, even then you'd only get £22.50 a week after your income is taken off.

You would also have the £258 a week from the lodgers to help out though so you'd have plenty to cover the costs, just be short on the repayment part of the equation, but it's not really fair to ask taxpayers to not just keep the roof over your head but to also increase the amount of it you own is it?

KoalaElf

real1314 wrote: »

On the positive side, as they are treating your mortage as residential, you woud be eligible for the interest to be paid once you've completed the qualifying period, which is 39 weeks, but is to be reduced to 13 weeks from jan 2009, although the full details of how it will work (13 weeks on from jan 2009 or will anyone who's waited 13 weeks by jan 2009 get it straight away?) have not yet been confirmed. They won't cover anything towards repayment though. However, your income may affect the interest payments:-

You would also have the £258 a week from the lodgers to help out though so you'd have plenty to cover the costs, just be short on the repayment part of the equation, but it's not really fair to ask taxpayers to not just keep the roof over your head but to also increase the amount of it you own is it?

Let me start with thanking you for your input. However I am unsure of some of your calculations, but more importantly the simple fact that in their eyes I *have* £221p/w income means I will not "complete the qualifying period" since I am not able to claim JSA. So unless you can tell me different it seems the rest of it is irrelevant?

As for your last comment - I totally agree with you that no one elses taxes should have to contribute to my mortgage repayments. I have an interest only mortgage, [well over £800p/m] and have recently stopped paying into my seperate repayment vehicle since I obviously cannot afford it at the moment. As I understand it, I have never suggested such a thing.

However the fact remains that I am stuck with a house, that has tenants in it, that I am paying all of my "income" to support. As I see it I should be entitled to some help with my basic living costs whilst I am struggling to find a job.

If I could sell my house then I would. But my tenants would refuse to move out, and houses are not exactly selling quickly at the moment!

If I was renting out a room elsewhere, I believe I would be able to class as self employed - my rental expenses would be offset against my rental gross income [essentially leaving me with no profit or net income - nothing to "pay" myself with]. If I was operating as a Lodging house I believe I would also be able to do the same. That is why it strikes me as odd that a similar investment into what I saw as a 'business' opportunity, that no longer makes a profit, would not qualify me for help when I am having to beg for help from friends so I can eat.

If I had invested my inheritance into two smaller properties - then presumably I would not be in this situation since the income from the one I didn't live in would be offset agains the cost of running it. How was I meant to predict two years ago, that I wouldn't be able to get a minimum wage job, and plan my investment to ensure that I would be able to claim JSA so I could eat?! And if I had - I think that might be considered to be morally objectionable.

It seems to me that I am going to have to hope that lady luck shines on me and I can keep scraping by until I eventually get a job or can sell my house, and I don't get driven to desperate measures before then.

KoalaElf

briona wrote: »

Personally I think £3 a card is quite reasonable – this is the price many factory-made cards sell for in Clinton Cards and the like, and I've seen handmade cards in other shops going for anything up to £8! The shops I had in mind for the OP to sell cards in are, dare I say it, slightly higher-end shops (which Bath in particular is known for), where if money was tight, you would be most unlikely to shop anyway!

I also think £3 a card is perfectly normal. For handmade cards I often see them selling for £5 or so. So your suggestion seems fine - especially in Bath!

I am wondering how to approach shops once I have made up a bunch of cards. I guess I go for the smaller family run types or boutiquey ones, rather than any big chains. Should I write to them do you think? I am terrified of ringing people I don't know about stuff, but if I prepare and rehearse what I am going to say I should be fine. I just prefer speaking to people face to face or emailing them / writing [I am very likely to have undiagnosed aspergers - so please don't tell me to 'pull my socks up and stop being a wuss'!]

briona

Right, firstly I'd make up a few samples, showing a good range of different images – cutesy kittens and flowers type pics, stylish handbags and shoes (possibly colour adjusted – high key stuff that sort of thing), some local architecture, something that might suit boys and finally something that might be more your signature style – and then having gotten a couple of shops in mind, I'd simply walk in. (I'm totally with you on the phoning up thing – I HATE doing it! People always say something that totally throws me and I lose my well-rehearsed plan and end up babbling!).

I used to go to the shop on the link below quite often and that's the kind of place I have in mind for you to be able to sell your cards.

http://www.bloomsburystore.com/locations/1

Regarding presentation, if you had an A4 portfolio case that you could carry the samples round in, you'd look quite professional. Also, if you wanted to keep the samples for future use, it might be worth having a colour photocopy of the actual images so that if the manager wasn't in the store when you went in, you could leave the staff with a photocopied sheet of the samples. Or you could be super cheeky and design an order form (very basic – Design 01, Design 02 etc and a box beside each for quantity required) that they could fill in and post back to you!

Be confident, both in your abilities and in selling yourself ("qualified artist and aspiring local photographer..."). And if one place says no, then simply move onto the next. If nothing else it's worth a try.

Briona

real1314

KoalaElf wrote: »

Let me start with thanking you for your input. However I am unsure of some of your calculations, but more importantly the simple fact that in their eyes I *have* £221p/w income means I will not "complete the qualifying period" since I am not able to claim JSA. So unless you can tell me different it seems the rest of it is irrelevant?

As for your last comment - I totally agree with you that no one elses taxes should have to contribute to my mortgage repayments. I have an interest only mortgage, [well over £800p/m] and have recently stopped paying into my seperate repayment vehicle since I obviously cannot afford it at the moment. As I understand it, I have never suggested such a thing.

However the fact remains that I am stuck with a house, that has tenants in it, that I am paying all of my "income" to support. As I see it I should be entitled to some help with my basic living costs whilst I am struggling to find a job.

If I could sell my house then I would. But my tenants would refuse to move out, and houses are not exactly selling quickly at the moment!

If I was renting out a room elsewhere, I believe I would be able to class as self employed - my rental expenses would be offset against my rental gross income [essentially leaving me with no profit or net income - nothing to "pay" myself with]. If I was operating as a Lodging house I believe I would also be able to do the same. That is why it strikes me as odd that a similar investment into what I saw as a 'business' opportunity, that no longer makes a profit, would not qualify me for help when I am having to beg for help from friends so I can eat.

If I had invested my inheritance into two smaller properties - then presumably I would not be in this situation since the income from the one I didn't live in would be offset agains the cost of running it. How was I meant to predict two years ago, that I wouldn't be able to get a minimum wage job, and plan my investment to ensure that I would be able to claim JSA so I could eat?! And if I had - I think that might be considered to be morally objectionable.

It seems to me that I am going to have to hope that lady luck shines on me and I can keep scraping by until I eventually get a job or can sell my house, and I don't get driven to desperate measures before then.

Regarding serving the qualifying period, I think that if you continue to sign on, you will be regarded as serving the period.
At the moment, you have £258 a week from the lodgers and mortgage interest of £173 a week. So that's £85 a week, although as the DWP are saying £211 a week (as you first said, but now say £221?) you probably have £271 a week from the lodgers? (as the DWP allow the first £20 per lodger).
The simple fact is that when taking out a residential mortgage you are advised to consider taking out a mortgage protection policy. You actually took out a BTL mortgage (which is odd, as I first said, you usually need to already own a property to get a BTL) which is a business decision. The main problem you have is this business arrangement. But for this, you would be in the same position as anyone else, so it's your decision to set up this business arrangement to use tenants as a way to get a bigger home than you could have otherwise afford that has led you here.
So if you don't expect the state to help with this, then why post on the benefits board?
If all you wanted was clarification of the rules / the decision you've had, that seems to have been fulfilled.

real1314

Oh and regarding this idea that if the investment was separate you'd be better off, they'd still only allow the interest on the mortgage and reasonable expenses.
It's all a bit hypothetical at that point though because the rental income would be different and the mortgage costs would be different. if the income exceeded the interest on the mortgage by the amount you're getting now, you'd be in the same boat. In fact you wouldn't even get the £20 per tenant disregard they've allowed.

Viqueen

p1an0player wrote: »

ouch, a card costing more than half the hourly minimum wage?

I am an artist too, but am unemployed so I buy cards from the Pound Shop, 2 for a £2. No way could I put my daily food money into a card, but I wish you all the best; paintings etc are not selling at the moment.