The Dispute Service

Piggles12345

I have to rant about this!!

We had a window broken by vandals in our old property. We were billed for it at the time. We took this up with the letting agent and they agreed that it was not our responsibilty.

Now, almost two years later they have billed us upon moving out.

We took the issue to the Dispute Service and they made a mistake in how they read our contract which means that they have found us responsible.

Our contract ACTUALLY says: The tennant will 'replace all broken glass electric light bulbs and fuses'.

TDS quoted it as saying: The tennant will 'replace all broken glass, electric light blulbs and fuses'.

If you look, they have added a comma that is not there are after the word glass which completely changes the meaning of the clause!!

So, I called them. They said no can do, our word is final even when we have made a massive mistake like that!! GRRRR! I am so annoyed!

So I am going to see my local MP in a couple of weeks and a solicitor next week to get them to re-open the dispite and issue me with an apology for the mistake that they made.

GRRRRR... sorry, just really wanted to have a rant about this!!

AND AND AND... another thing! When you send off all of your documentation to The Dispute Service, they only pick out the 'relevant' documents to give to the person examining the case- so how are they meant to make a fair judgement if they don't have all of the information??? :mad: :mad: :mad:

Tozer

Not sure I follow your concern. Are you suggesting that the clause required you to replace only glass electric light bulbs (as opposed to, maybe, wooden light bulbs)?

rosysparkle

How would the average person read that clause? Would they read it as the tenant was responsible for glass light bulbs and fuses, or would they read it as the tenant would be responsible for broken glass, light bulbs and fuses? I would have read it as the latter, and I think most people would. All light bulbs as far as I know are made of glass, so there would be no reason to put the word glass in if it was referring to the light bulbs.

I would have thought the landlord could have claimed on his insurance for the glass, but it does appear to me that your tenancy agreement makes you responsible. Sorry, as that won't be what you want to hear.

marleyboy

but all widnows are made of glass, so would it not be more rational to use the word "windows"

rosysparkle

No, because mirrors are made of glass too, as are some shelves, doors and door panels.

marleyboy

but so are light bulbs, but windows are windows are they not made out of glass?

rosysparkle

All tabbies are cats, but not all cats are tabbies.

It's a fairly standard clause in tenancy agreements. 'Glass' could be taken to include light bulbs as well as windows, mirrors, doors, oven doors, etc; but to prevent confusion (as light bulbs are not what most people think of first when they are informed they are responsible for replacing broken glass), light bulbs are down separately.

paintpot

I would have thought irrespective of the clause you quoted with or without the comma, that broken windows are part of the structure of the building and therefore the responsibility of the landlord to replace/repair unless of course the tenant broke the window and the landlord can prove it.

I manage a house where a very large bay window was put through by drunken vandals and it had to be boarded in the early hours which cost a fair bit, plus replacing the broken window. I wouldn't have dreamed of charging the tenant for it. The police attended and therefore I obtained a crime number and claimed on the insurance.

Did you receive anything in writing from the agent at the time when they agreed it was not your responsibility?

My tenancy states that the tenant will pay for and replace any broken glass where the tenant, his friends or visitors are responsible for the damage. A landlord can write whatever they like into a tenancy but it doesn't mean that the clause will be unheld and a landlord cannot delegate their responsibilities for maintaining the structure of the building.

I think you have been unfairly done to on the information provided. However, I don't believe you can appeal such a decision. I would have thought the landlord would need to have proven that you broke the window.

paintpot

marleyboy wrote: »

but all widnows are made of glass, so would it not be more rational to use the word "windows"

On that note, you obviously have the windows themselves i.e the frames, handles, locks etc and then the glass panes so they should be distinguished between.

Either way though, windows, or window panes should be the responsibility of the landlord unless the tenants breaks them and this is proveable. A comprehensive inventory should list the windows and any existing damage, mine does, right down to the number and type of handles, any window locks, whether they are double glazed, wooden, upvc etc.

Thus, any subsequent damage caused by the tenant should be deductible from the deposit if it can be "proven" that the tenant caused the damage. A defective handle may be wear and tear unless caused by tenant misuse which is hard to prove. A broken pane though is unlikely to be wear and tear and thus it needs to be established "how" it was broken. Generally, it would be difficult to "prove" that the tenant broke it unless there were eyewitnesses, the tenants owns up etc. Without that, the landlord has to take it on the chin.

I actually had other cases regarding doors and windows: a window shot at by kids with an air rifle or similar and I paid for that. I had a double glazed patio door blow off it's hinges and I paid for that aswell. Both funnily enough happened on the same day but different properties! I don't see how I could have charged the tenants for either.

marleyboy

I know my last tenancy agreement called Windows, Windows, Doors, Doors and light bulbs Light bulbs. it didnt say "glass, wood, ceramics and fabrics"

olly300

OP if the letting agent made the agreement in writing that you are not liable for the broken window because it's an act of vandalism when you go and see the MP and the solicitor make a fuss about that.

While the terms of the contract are important not everything in a contract is written down and depending were you are in the UK a tenancy agreement can be a verbal agreement.