Building Requirements for Flueless Gas Fire

Razor

LittleVoice wrote: »

Are you also saying that you think flueless ones are more difficult/complicated to install than "conventional" gas fires?

I don't think the issue is that Canucklehead is not capable of fitting a flueless fire if he wanted to gain the required ACS module more that he is not convinced from a safety aspect.

I don't fit these and neither do British Gas also the Association of Registered Gas Installers ARGI advise their members not to fit them.

If you insist they must be fitted by a qualified engineer exactly to the manufacturers specification and must be commissioned using a flue gas analyser.

awacko

I've been reading these posts and was wondering if anybody has had problems with condensation when using the flueless fires. We have had one for five years and keeping getting a high condensation reading in our living room and are suspicious that its the fire. Anybody any thoughts ?

habs786

I have had a flueless fire and its been fantastic the heat is so warming and helps alot during winter times.
The only issue we are having is when the fire is on full heat, the heat is somewhat being release through the vents at the top and burning the paper. Previously we had paint on the walls and this started to darken up so we decided to put paper on but now this is burning and shoing areas where it has occured. Any thoughts or similar experiences.

gas_safe_installer_2

I also do not fit flueless fires, although my qualifications allow me to do so. The issue for me is safety. These type of fires use a catalyst to convert harmful products of combustion into Co2 (hence the earlier comment about condensation on windows). A flue gas analyser is required at the commissioning stage, along with other checks to make sure the appliance is burning correctly. If the fire does not burn correctly, the catalyst/s in the appliance can soot up, causing carbon monoxide to be released into the room (as the catalysts can no longer do their job when sooted). Regular servicing is vital to ensure continued safe operation!
As with any flueless appliance, an openable window is also required, IN ADDITION to any PERMANENT ventilation that is required (i.e. a vent that is not closeable or has a flyscreen over it, is sleeved through a cavity wall and is usually 100cm2 or whatever the manufacturer states).
Room volume is critical, as is the placement of the permanent vent and bear in mind that flueless fires are also not intended as a sole source of heat for the room.

All in all, with these considerations, I find this type of fire to be of little use other than for effect. I would also strongly advise people to consider an alternative to this type of appliance.

If you do finally decide on one, get a Gas Safe Registered engineer to carry out the installation (which may require a brief initial survey beforehand to establish suitabilty etc.) and finally make sure it is regularly serviced and that you fit a carbon monoxide alarm in the room too.

moonrakerz

Sophiej wrote: »

Its great, really warming - much warmer than a gas fire.............. isnt too expensive & gets delivered & I didnt need an engineer,............got it from http://www.gomodern.co.uk............ They are in London but you can buy online too.

Two posts from "Sophiej" both praising companies and with links - I wonder, if I rang "gomodern" and asked for Sophie.............? - sorry, being cynical again !!!

phill99

But this is a 3 year old post. Numpty 'gas safe installer' has just dragged it up to start spamming.

gas_safe_installer_2

Actually not done this to start 'spamming' and take exception to being called a NUMPTY!! Yes the post is 3 years old, but safety issues do not alter over time. People have died through bad installations of this type of appliance and any information is key to prevent further incidents.
I initially contributed to this thread after visiting a property yesterday, where an obvious DIY flueless gas fire installation had malfunctioned and caused the carbon monoxide alarm to go off. There was no vent in the room and the occupants had complained of headaches and generally feeling unwell.
May be you should consider the genuine reasons why someone would post, rather than offering your cynical and somewhat narrow viewpoint!
I've been in business for ten years and added to this thread, purely to inform people who may be searching for info on these fires what they should be considering before going ahead.
Late or not, I consider it valid and it was offered in good faith!

travjunky

Thanks for the info Gas Safe Installer. I found this information only after buying a flueless gas fire and searching for information as to where to place the vent. Will take your advice on board about regular servicing and have a carbonmonoxide detector.

pag1

Installed a flueless gas fire (focal point fire) JUST ALMOST 4 YEARS AGO.
Was absolutely fantastic to have a fire in a house with no conventional flue/chimney.
Around 3 years ago- noticed interior paint on walls and woodwork had discoloured quicker than normal.
I put it down to EU regs regarding reduction of lead in paint .
Since then it has been a case of painting the forth bridge --as soon as I finish- I have to start at again. Has drove me crazy.
I asked opinions on 'stay whiter longer paint ' on various forums and switched to acrylic --but- same problem- although not as fast .

2 years ago- noticed soot on corners of fire and marble fire back.
1 year ago- walls at back of fire were discoloured -- and ceiling too. So I painted everything again.
YESTERDAY-- spring clean started- and on wiping the walls and every other surface in that particular room-- cleaning cloths went BLACK. We were horrified .
We both know it is the fire --and so- it is now turned off.
I also have to say I have had a severe cough every day - which just wont go away --it has lasted 3 years and I have been to docs and hospital for xrays and back to docs for lung function tests- and all were within limits and ok--but the cough wont go.
I do spend a lot of time in the house (self employed).

Now for the nitty gritty.
The fire I bought from a seller on ebay was brand new focal point fire .
A guy who was doing work locally connected it up for me (he had corgi on side of van).
No vent fitted to the room- but - I was told- seeing it is a open plan living room into the kitchen that has ventilation- It will be ok.
So- where I am at now is - I cant use the fire and am considering getting one of those 'open flame' gas fires (flueless)-- which says a catolitic converter is not needed.
Today we are still scrubbing the walls , ceiling, paintwork and everything else .

Really pee-ed off.
Pete

cells

PAG1

I know this post is a year old and this may not get back to you, but for others that may be reading this. Your fire sounds like it was installed incorrectly and could potentially be a big harm to you.

If it is producing soot (the black marks you talk of) it means the natural gas is not burning fully which is dangerous. Likewise your coughs may be from this black marks. If cleaning the walls results in a black cloth you will have the same residue going into your lungs.

Needless to say, get the fire checked with a CO monitor they are only £10 these days.

Also if the fire burns yellow rather than blue this is a sign it is not completely combusting and will be producing soot and CO both harmful in enclosed spaces.

Having said this dont let this put off prospective purchasers. Flueless gas fires can be nice and more efficient than a boiler heating your home. But do get yourself a CO monitor just in case.