An Open Letter To Mortgage Brokers.

dunstonh

he point I was making from the very outset is that I found the comment that tied advisors are 'muppets' to be pretty rude and unfair.

Totally correct. Banks are the natural training ground for brokers and IFAs nowadays. The fact they are working for a bank doesnt make them a muppet. I started in a bank and I think the training I received was first rate. The products were pretty naff but that is not the fault of the bank adviser.

dwsjarcmcd

The issue here is not what is best for the customer, independent or tied because the answer is 'stating the bleedin obvious'. The issue for IFA's is how does the customer find you as opposed to walking in to their local bank or building society branch?

As an example, there are regular threads on here asking 'does anyone know a mortgage adviser in whatever town'. You never see a thread asking to find a bank or building society branch in whatever town.

Until the independent sector markets itself better then the arguement is largely spurious and should in reality be 'is tied advice better than no advice'

feisty1

dwsjarcmcd: yellow pages, www.unbiased.co.uk and other sites like this, recommendations from friends etc blame the FSA not us as we are restricted in our advertising. Believe me we're not hiding!....

dwsjarcmcd

feisty1 wrote: »

dwsjarcmcd: yellow pages, www.unbiased.co.uk and other sites like this, recommendations from friends etc blame the FSA not us as we are restricted in our advertising. Believe me we're not hiding!....

I am aware of all these ways of finding how to find IFA's but the problem is the person who walks into a bank branch doesn't.

feisty1

sorry if i misunderstood, BT how do people find pumbers, dentists, builders and they can't find mortgage advisers! Am I missing something here?

feisty1

not BT !!! Missed u BUT

koexelek

dunstonh wrote: »

Totally correct. Banks are the natural training ground for brokers and IFAs nowadays. The fact they are working for a bank doesnt make them a muppet. I started in a bank and I think the training I received was first rate. The products were pretty naff but that is not the fault of the bank adviser.

I'll second that.

The problem the banks have though, is that they do not renumerate their staff very well. When I left the bank ( after they had paid for me to be fully FPC qualified:cool: ) I doubled my salary overnight

harryhound

inca wrote: »

OK I accept the challenge:

I won't try to score cheap points, by asking you to give retrospective advice; however we need to set the scene.

Early "retired" bloke aged 60 - 65 is in his bank, yes its Mr Hound paying in a modest cheque..

TELLER (looks at his joint account records: 2K in current account. 175K in the linked internet account. Cash ISA in name of Mrs Hound (presumably teller can see this?) 75K has recently migrated away by cheque. "Have you thought about getting advice from one of our advisers?"

HOUND (the answer was not yes but let's us pretend you were given my email address:).

T.B. ........................................."over to you"

1) My CSAs would not be able to see that there is an ISA for Mrs

2) If I ever heard my CSAs simply asking 'have you thought about getting some advice from one of our advisors' I wouldn't be happy. This question would not be asked by my CSAs ( I observe them daily) as the only advisors we have in branch are mortgage advisors so answering yes to this would not mean they want mortgage advice (which I am assuming you must be referring to as you are calling tied mortgage advisors muppets?) For them to refer a customer to myself or one of the other mortgage advisors they have to have sat down with the customer and completed some sort of fact find which would indicate that the customer was looking to re-mortgage or borrow money against their property.

3) If a customer did not say yes then they would not be getting any advice from anyone, we don't use e-mail so nothing would come of having their e-mail address (if the bank had it the CSA would not know anyway) but if you would like to relate this to their address maybe then a CSA would not write out to the customer without an agreement for this to happen, and with a purpose (eg, the customer asked for information on the next fixed rate bond we offered). I cannot speak for the bank as an organisation about whether they would write to the customer if they had indicated that they would like to be written to by ourselves, only for the people in my branch. This is also true of some larger broker firms, a broker might not directly contact you without prior agreemement but the company itself might.

4) If you're looking to see what kind of advice I would give following this then that is ridiculous, we do believe it or not ask the odd question or two to find out what the customer is looking for, whether the borrowing is something we are comfortable with looking at (especially in retirement) etc etc etc.

Back to you......maybe with a more sensible or realistic scenario, if you want to argue that a tied advisor's advice makes them a muppet then maybe give a relevant situation (ie, being in a mortgage interview) and ask what advice I would give as a tied advisor and I will answer as honestly as I have to this question. The scenario you gave had no relevance to the quality of mortgage advice.

Sorry to get off thread.
I've also been asked:
Q1: Had I thought of restucturing my mortgage?
A1: No but I will be paying off before Xmas (and I did).

Q2: Endless questions about house structure and contents insurance
A2: No thanks

Q3: (This was last week) Do I have a funeral plan in place? (I kid you not).
A3: (Thinks "does a man with 175K obviously on deposit need a funeral plan?")
No you can put me in an old sack and bury me 6' under in the back garden.
( If anyone has practical experience of DIY burial send me a PM or start a a thread, in the meantime I'm improving my personal grooming:D )

I think my main point is that with the Banks paralysed because they cannot see the way forward. I very much doubt us ordinary punters have a clear view of long term commitments.

That said I would be happy to have a go at completing a fact find on here if someone want to to post theirs and accept the challenge.
I don't think I need a mortgage for an equity withdrawal loan, not ready to be condemned to a care/nursing home yet;)

feisty1

harryhound: Quote: "That said I would be happy to have a go at completing a fact find on here if someone want to to post theirs and accept the challenge".

Where are you going with this challenge? I'm not quite sure what relevance a Fact Find has to this thread

alexandlee

islandannie wrote: »

Shirt lost back!

I sincerely hope lots of you Mortgage arrangers are in that position.

You deserve it.

Its comments like this that help no-one at all.

Anyway, here's my take on the Martin's guide/information/advise.

1. Advise - this word means different things to different people. A mortgage consultant who is regulated and gives 'advise' lives and hangs by that advise. A client can complain to the FSA about that consultant's advise. On the other side, Mr Smith can read an article in a paper advising him to do x, or fix at y rate, proceed and if it goes wrong - well thats tough. Yet he can and will argue the journalist 'advised' him to proceed. And when you're a powerful journalist people take note.

2. Fees free brokers in my experience, both as a consumer and a finance employee professional, are able not to charge fees because of the volume of business they write allows them to survice on the commission alone. If you go to a local or national fees fee broker they must be dealing with more clients on average than someone who charges on a time cost + commission basis. If they have more clients then they must spend less average time per case. Otherwise they fee free model doesn't work. Only the individual can decide if they want less time spent on them in return for less / zero fee.

3. Martin's view on brokers / latest guide. Martin is broker friendly when we are able to read the guides and posts on the MSE site. The difficulty is that when he appears on GMTV or Radio 2 going at ten to the dozen people pick out what they want to hear. So when he says go to a WOM fees free broker, and then go direct to see if you can get better then thats what the public will do. Take this to a logical conclusion. Huge numbers of brokers and firms (esp. fees free) will go the wall becuase they won't do any business, and won't recieve the commission. Subsequently the public will then not be able to go to a WOM fees free broker because there won't be any left.

4. Death threats - general nastiness.
In my opinion it is absolutely atrocious, and shouldn't be condoned in any way shape or form. Any broker who is facing the general housing / economic situation will not be happy when a journalist says consider going direct. Brokers are only fighting their corner, but there is a line and it shouldn't be crossed.

Kind regards
Lee

Well I hope everyone has a happy and healthy 2009.
Be good, and remember a smile costs nothing