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Return of deposit - how soon can I go to court?
Lady_Annabel_Aardvark
Posts: 63 Forumite
Sorry, this is a long post!
In June 2006 my husband and I rented from a private landlord and paid a deposit equivalent to two months rent - a sum of £1,350.
We left at the end of September 2008 and the landlords' agents did a check-out with us and said she'd recommend the return of the deposit in full.
The landlords are a husband and wife. She manages the properties but he seems to step in when anything tricky crops up or when a bit of aggression is needed! These landlords have several properties in the town where I live including the one next door where the tenants also had problems getting maintenance carried out.
After two weeks we started to pursue this and during that week spoke to the agent a couple of times. She suggested I ring the landlord direct. Apparently the landlords wanted to look at the property themselves and they took over two weeks to do so. I rang and spoke to the landlord (husband) after three weeks and he was quite aggressive, swearing etc and saying there were 'problems with the walls and the carpets weren't clean enough. As per our contract the carpets (because we had pets) were cleaned professionally after we moved out and were in fact cleaner than when we'd moved in as the house had recently been purchased and had lain empty for two years. No cleaning was done prior to us moving in. I stayed calm and polite and pointed out that there was an inherent damp problem (rising damp) which was nothing to do with us and one of the reasons we had moved out was because they refused to do any maintenance to the property. I asked what the problem was with the carpet. In the end he refused to speak to me and slammed the phone down. After 20 minutes he rang back and offered half the deposit back saying he'd had to burn one of the carpets! I rejected that.
Cutting a long story short(er) we wrote to them and headed the letter 'letter before action' and adapted a template letter from the internet more or less telling them that we knew our rights as well as theirs and as we had done no damage to the property we were entitled to our deposit back in full. I asked that if they were intending to keep any of the deposit we wanted it accounted for to the penny. The same week (two weeks ago today) I received a letter with a cheque drawn on a joint account in his name but in her maiden name rather than the married name we knew her by. The cheque was for £850 and there was a 'quotation' for a new carpet for one of the rooms for £500! A letter said it was in 'full and final settlement' of what they owed us. We wrote another letter headed 'Final notice', enlosing their rejected cheque. By the way, we went to the carpet shop and as suspected the carpet quoted for had never been supplied. This letter although sent recorded delivery could not be delivered by the postman and a 'while you were out' card was left on 12th November. To date this has not been collected by them or redelivered. I faxed a copy of that letter and cheque to their agent (who is not a managing agent but only finds new tenants).
I should add that I have been in touch with the previous owners of the house - the carpets are 15 years old and the house had previously been used as a clinic. A lot of building work has been done in the house since we moved out, including a concrete lorry that was seen outside churning cement into the hallway. We also have reason to believe that these people have failed to return deposits to other tenants in the past.
Yesterday in emails/telephone conversations, their agent said she thought she could get them to agree to £1,000. I again rejected that and said I had started preparing the paperwork for court. Today I have received an email from her and here I have copied and pasted:
'Following on from our telephone conversation I have re-read the tenancy agreement and note that within clause 2 it states that the parties have a period of 90 days from the date of termination to reach agreement within this period either party may refer to mediation/arbitration/a dispute tribunal. After 90 days if the matter remains un referred then the disputed sum is to be paid to the Landlord and the balance to be paid to the tenant and the matter will be considered to have been brought to a close.
The purpose of mentioning this is that if you refer the matter straight to the court there is a chance that the judge will ask why you did not refer the matter to mediation etc prior to bringing it to court. This type of clause was specifically drawn up and encouraged by the courts to be included in agreements to try and keep the courts free of minor disputes between parties. I have used a dispute resolution service before and the lowest cost was £250 plus vat and expenses for each party.'
I have no recollection of this in our agreement and have asked her to fax the relevant clause specifically relating to our contract. An hour and a half later I have not received a fax.
My question is how soon can we take this to court and is there any truth in what has been said in the first of her paragraphs above?
If you have managed to read all of that, thank you for sticking it out! Any advice would be helpful. We are quite desperate to get our money returned as we have an equivalent overdraft from having to borrow more money to move and for the deposit for our current home.
In June 2006 my husband and I rented from a private landlord and paid a deposit equivalent to two months rent - a sum of £1,350.
We left at the end of September 2008 and the landlords' agents did a check-out with us and said she'd recommend the return of the deposit in full.
The landlords are a husband and wife. She manages the properties but he seems to step in when anything tricky crops up or when a bit of aggression is needed! These landlords have several properties in the town where I live including the one next door where the tenants also had problems getting maintenance carried out.
After two weeks we started to pursue this and during that week spoke to the agent a couple of times. She suggested I ring the landlord direct. Apparently the landlords wanted to look at the property themselves and they took over two weeks to do so. I rang and spoke to the landlord (husband) after three weeks and he was quite aggressive, swearing etc and saying there were 'problems with the walls and the carpets weren't clean enough. As per our contract the carpets (because we had pets) were cleaned professionally after we moved out and were in fact cleaner than when we'd moved in as the house had recently been purchased and had lain empty for two years. No cleaning was done prior to us moving in. I stayed calm and polite and pointed out that there was an inherent damp problem (rising damp) which was nothing to do with us and one of the reasons we had moved out was because they refused to do any maintenance to the property. I asked what the problem was with the carpet. In the end he refused to speak to me and slammed the phone down. After 20 minutes he rang back and offered half the deposit back saying he'd had to burn one of the carpets! I rejected that.
Cutting a long story short(er) we wrote to them and headed the letter 'letter before action' and adapted a template letter from the internet more or less telling them that we knew our rights as well as theirs and as we had done no damage to the property we were entitled to our deposit back in full. I asked that if they were intending to keep any of the deposit we wanted it accounted for to the penny. The same week (two weeks ago today) I received a letter with a cheque drawn on a joint account in his name but in her maiden name rather than the married name we knew her by. The cheque was for £850 and there was a 'quotation' for a new carpet for one of the rooms for £500! A letter said it was in 'full and final settlement' of what they owed us. We wrote another letter headed 'Final notice', enlosing their rejected cheque. By the way, we went to the carpet shop and as suspected the carpet quoted for had never been supplied. This letter although sent recorded delivery could not be delivered by the postman and a 'while you were out' card was left on 12th November. To date this has not been collected by them or redelivered. I faxed a copy of that letter and cheque to their agent (who is not a managing agent but only finds new tenants).
I should add that I have been in touch with the previous owners of the house - the carpets are 15 years old and the house had previously been used as a clinic. A lot of building work has been done in the house since we moved out, including a concrete lorry that was seen outside churning cement into the hallway. We also have reason to believe that these people have failed to return deposits to other tenants in the past.
Yesterday in emails/telephone conversations, their agent said she thought she could get them to agree to £1,000. I again rejected that and said I had started preparing the paperwork for court. Today I have received an email from her and here I have copied and pasted:
'Following on from our telephone conversation I have re-read the tenancy agreement and note that within clause 2 it states that the parties have a period of 90 days from the date of termination to reach agreement within this period either party may refer to mediation/arbitration/a dispute tribunal. After 90 days if the matter remains un referred then the disputed sum is to be paid to the Landlord and the balance to be paid to the tenant and the matter will be considered to have been brought to a close.
The purpose of mentioning this is that if you refer the matter straight to the court there is a chance that the judge will ask why you did not refer the matter to mediation etc prior to bringing it to court. This type of clause was specifically drawn up and encouraged by the courts to be included in agreements to try and keep the courts free of minor disputes between parties. I have used a dispute resolution service before and the lowest cost was £250 plus vat and expenses for each party.'
I have no recollection of this in our agreement and have asked her to fax the relevant clause specifically relating to our contract. An hour and a half later I have not received a fax.
My question is how soon can we take this to court and is there any truth in what has been said in the first of her paragraphs above?
If you have managed to read all of that, thank you for sticking it out! Any advice would be helpful. We are quite desperate to get our money returned as we have an equivalent overdraft from having to borrow more money to move and for the deposit for our current home.
0
Comments
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Was the deposit in an approved protection scheme?0
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Who holds the deposit - agents or LL?
At any point between june 06 and sept 08 did you sign a new contract?
Personally, I'd start the court process now - they are all taking the p*ss -, but just want to hear your answers to the above.0 -
Soot2006: No the deposit wasn't protected.
Sooz: LL holds the deposit. No we never signed another contract. (We think they're taking the p!ss too!)
Thank you both for reading!0 -
Sounds like it's time to go to court.
I bet the LL gets away with this all the time -- not everyone is willing (or able) to put up a fight. As no new contract was signed after 2006, the deposit did not need to be protected. Fair enough. However, the landlord is still no entitled to take what he wants willy nilly. e.g. he is not allowed to buy a NEW carpet. He is only allowed to cover his losses (and he has not lost a new carpet); i.e. professional cleaning of the carpet if required. Which you already had done = Do you have an invoice for the professional cleaning you had done?
To me, it sounds like you have been more than reasonable in trying to contact the LL, and also you have attempted to use the EA as a go between. If the LL is not willing to talk to you, I'm willing to bet my socks off he won't shut up in front of the judge. It should be fairly clear cut if everything is as you said!0 -
Not Ashford is it?0
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If the carpet was 15 years old, and you lived there 2 years, then the maximum they could feasibly get you to pay would be two 15ths (2/15) of the carpet cost.
i.e. if they quote £500, you'd only have to pay £500/15 X 2 = £66.67!
I'd take this to court immediately! Start proceedings online NOW! They shouldn't be able to get away with this.
Alternatively, offer them £66.67 and supply the evidence that the carpet was 15 years old, minus what you paid to have it cleaned!Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
Pinkshoes,
If the carpet was 15 years old BEFORE they moved in, then you'd add the 2 years on to that - as they had a further 2 years of wear and tear. This would mean the carpets were 17 years old when they left. You can't charge the tenants towards the 2 years of wear and tear whilst they were living there.
Depending on quality, the life expectancy of a rental carpet is between 5 and 10 years. (and if cost of new, incl fitting is £500, depending on the size of the room, I'd say it wasn't a particularly good quality carpet). Either way, a carpet of that age has no value left in it.0 -
Soot2006 thanks. Everything is exactly as I've said above. They can only lie to make things go their way. We only have to tell the truth.
We handed the carpet cleaning invoice to the agent but the guy who did the cleaning (and it took him seven hours!) is willing to supply duplicates. He has also emailed us a statement of the condition of the carpets when he left the property and is willing to speak for us in court if it becomes necessary.0 -
Pinkshoes,
If the carpet was 15 years old BEFORE they moved in, then you'd add the 2 years on to that - as they had a further 2 years of wear and tear. This would mean the carpets were 17 years old when they left. You can't charge the tenants towards the 2 years of wear and tear whilst they were living there.
Depending on quality, the life expectancy of a rental carpet is between 5 and 10 years. (and if cost of new, incl fitting is £500, depending on the size of the room, I'd say it wasn't a particularly good quality carpet). Either way, a carpet of that age has no value left in it.
The previous owners have estimated the carpet would be 15 years old now. However the downstairs of the house was used as a clinic previously and on our 'moving in' inventory there is mention that the carpet in question has a 'stain' (it is a rising damp stain) and 'footfall tracking' across the carpet as the room in question was a sort of 'corridor' between the hallway and the kitchen.
The dimensions on the carpet 'quote' were nothing like the real dimensions of the room and as I've said, the carpet mentioned in the quote was not supplied. Yesterday the agent told me that they were in fact going to put 'hard wearing flooring' in that room.0 -
Hang on to your evidence - eg dimensions on the carpet quote. Never give away a cleaning invoice. Your cleaning guy sounds helpful, but a testimony of 7 hours cleaning might not be in your favour! Get the duplicate.After the uprising of the 17th June The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?0
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