Is it not time to have a separate Saving and investing forums?

LongTermLurker

gozomark wrote: »

Sorry, that's wrong. By definition, "investment" means you are putting something into someone else. On the other hand, "saving" just means not spending what you've currently got - it's nothing at all to do with risk.

you are talking about saving, and not savings

I was defining the difference between Investment and Saving, which I think is what the thread title refers to, is it not?

If you want to transpose it to "Savings", then the definition still stands; you invest in someone or something and you place your savings into a bank account (or sweet jar). That's the definition, whether you just put money on one side or whether you give it to someone so they can run their business. Risk comes in many forms, eg

• invest in gold/oil/commodities - you risk loss of capital
• invest in bonds while interest rates are falling significantly - you risk a low yield as the price rises
• invest in bonds while interest rates are rising significantly - you risk loss of capital as they become less attractive to buyers
• Buy a house (to live in) - you risk inability to maintain payments if you lose your job because an unforseen recession hits next year
• save in a variable rate savings account and interest rates drop - you risk not achieving your desired income levels
• put your money under the mattress because you think banks may collapse - you risk fire, theft, lack of income and devaluation of capital due to inflation
• save £100k in a bank account - you risk total loss of 50% of your capital
• Choose not to invest because you think it's risky - you risk not making 50% gain when stockmarkets suddenly recover

So there are risks and there are risks, but they aren't restricted to investments

Paul_Herring

gozomark wrote: »

Sorry, that's wrong. By definition, "investment" means you are putting something into someone else. On the other hand, "saving" just means not spending what you've currently got - it's nothing at all to do with risk.

you are talking about saving, and not savings

Which dictionary are you using?

Saving: You get the absolute value of your 'fund'[1] back when you want it back. (+ interest rate if applicable/ +/- FSCS intervention/ +/- inflation)

Investing: You get, maybe, your 'fund'[1] back when you want it back. (+/- gains/losses on the underlying stuff)

[1] Fund defined as, if you put in $1,000[2] (say) 10 years ago, you'll get exactly $1,000 back today.
[2] pound stirling key not available on this keyboard. Treat all USisms in this post as not applying to the US

masonic

The main definition of "saving" in my dictionary is: preservation from danger or destruction. It doesn't seem investments fit that very well. So when you take your savings and invest them, you are not saving.

Crabman

For those who haven't seen it, Martin's previously addressed the issue of a separate Investments forum, here:

What About An Investment Forum?

LongTermLurker

Paul_Herring wrote: »

Which dictionary are you using?

You're missing the point Paul - an investment means giving some effort and taking a vested interest (in this sense interest doesn't have a monetary value :rolleyes:) in something - it's not, in itself, an indication of increased risk - that only comes into play when the terms and type of investment are considered.

However, if you want other definitions, OED says "noun 1 the action or process of investing" and Cambridge English Dictionary says (of the verb invest) "to put money, effort, time etc. into something to make a profit or get an advantage".

"Dragon's Den" gives a good practical example of what investments are, whether you physically give someone £50,000 or whether you buy shares in their company - of course the end goal is to make a profit, but risk isn't restricted to investing.

...or were you commenting on gozomark's comment???

fullstop

What about a separate forum for all things Iceland related, the main board is taken up with various different threads about Icesave and Kaupthing , it would make it easier for those of us not caught up in the whole sorry mess.

Paul_Herring

The IceSave/KE thing will die down in a couple of weeks/months to one or two threads, if that.

gozomark

The fact we can't even agree on the difference between savings and investments surely means it needs to stay as one forum....

john_s_2

gozomark wrote: »

The fact we can't even agree on the difference between savings and investments surely means it needs to stay as one forum....

Pity, cos that was my first question!

Paul_Herring

The difference between them is regularly pointed out when someone asks how they should 'invest' (about) £1,000 when their question clearly indicates they're asking about how they should 'save' it.

General Public[tm] confuses savings with investments, and frequently say invest when they mean save.

With hindsight, I'm at a loss to see how different fora would mitigate this. You'd still get people who really want to save posting on an investment board.

Much the same as how (currently) you stop the first post questions on the CC board about how they can 'legally' write off the money they legitimately borrowed because of some contract they signed back in 1774.