Seasonal Affective Disorder

swizzle_2

I have suffered from depressionfor years, but have managed it without medication for the last 7.

It`s worse in the winter, saw an ad yesterday for a light box, but do they work? Plus weres the best/cheapest way to get one?

I do get out, I have 2 children and a part time job so I can`t stay indoors.

Just read the tread on sunrise alarm clocks, didn`t know what they were before.

Has anyone used the rio light mask? Looks more in my price range!

Any ideas to lift my mood?

Thankyou

Ted_Hutchinson

This previous thread will save me from repeating the St John's Wort Information

As this is a moneysaving forum I cannot and would not suggest you try anything which hasn't got a proven history of being effective. I can find no research showing that the light mask does work and bearing in mind you use it with your eyes closed I cannot see any reason why it should work. The point about light therapy is that the light goes straight from your eyes to your brain and having your eyes closed so to me seem to defeat the object somewhat.

It has been
shown that Vitamin D3 is more effective than light therapy in SAD. As there are numerous other reasons why it would be good for your health to supplement with vitamin D I feel this is the first change you should make.
You use at least 3000iu of vitamin D each day so when you buy your supplements (the cheapest I know is Heathydirect if you go through quidco) bear this in mind. You need to know that your body will make 10-12000 iu in half an hours exposure to sunlight so you may, particularly if you also want to consider using a sadlight, want to think about buying a Facial Solaria from Tesco or even cheaper from Philips HB175 Facial Solaria- Philips £36.65 AMAZON. If you bought this you could take it to you local electical supplies and find some Bright White flourescent tubes to use instead of the UV tubes. You could then use the solaria with UV tubes to boost your vitamin D and swap the bulbs (or buy two one for UV and one for sadlights) providing you marked them clearly and used goggles for the UV and NO SUNGLASSES or tinted lenses for SAD and the brightwhite tubes.

As a stabilising mechanism to underpin all depression therapy it's a good idea to supplement with Omega 3 the cheapest and strongest is Omega Juice from ZIPVIT 3g a day 2 teaspoons will help keep you on an even keel but it may take a month to kick in. You can take this alongside any other anti-depressant as it will enhance the effect. Omega oils provide the main structure and operating substance in the brain so ensuring their is a constant fresh supply available does improve the chance of your brain working as efficiently as possible. Omega 3 like vitamin D also has lots of other benefits to your heart, circulation, muscles and joints so even if you feel it doesn't help your brain/depression it will be money well spent.

As I have pointed out Sadlights operate by providing a very bright light source which you use with your eyes open as early in the day as possible but not after 8pm when you should only use low subdued lighting as this is when your brain starts producing melatonin to help you sleep soundly and wake refreshed. I've had several lightboxes over the years but at the moment I'm using a philips 100watt equivalent low enegery softone bulb in a desk lamp which is poised right by my bed and is just inches from my eyes when I wake up. I find that the bigger more powerful the light source the more dazzling it is and the further away from it you have to sit. There is only so much dazzle you can stand first thing in the morning and so if you are going to persist with it then you may as well have a lot of really bright small lights sited where you are working, sitting standing reading so that rather than one large powerful light that you have to brace yourself to endure you spread your light intake over a longer period with really powerful light where you need it.

But in summary, you cannot expect your brain to work efficiently if you don't provide an adequate intake of omega3 and if you are not regularly eating 2-4 portions of oily fish weekly then you should take the most powerful supplement you can find.
To absorb omega you need to have a high level of vitamin D and you cannot get this at this time of year from sunlight or at any time through eating healthily so you either need to use a sunlamp or take large amounts of vitamind supplements.
Lightbox therapy like St Johns Wort has been shown to be effective. I personally think the lightboxes are too restrictive and overpriced . The solaria above is more or less a lightbox and would be if you swapped the tubes. Tchibo did one earlier this year at that price but last year they brought it out in the Spring and then wondered why it didn't sell. If they had brought it out in the Autum it would have been a different story.

Silver_3

I used a SAD lamp for a while once. I used leave the lamp on my dresser and then when I was drying my hair etc. infront of the dresser I'd get some light without feeling confined. Problem is I have sleeping problems too so I couldn't always do this first thing in the morning and once I got out of the routine I just gave up. Apparently there are some studies which researched effectiveness. One claims a reduction in the severity of symptoms. There are some side effects like hypomania and autonomic hperactivation but this is rare.

A light box didn't really help me so I'm planning to live abroad during the winter!

I have an NHS athens account so if you need me to look at proper research papers I can do a search for you.

Silver

WebJunkie007

I've had the same problem and whilst my solution isn't scientifically proven, I feel better!

1. I replaced all the light bulbs in my house with full spectrum light bulbs.

2. I was having trouble sleeping at night in the winter time because my body clock was so off. I now I take half a melatonin supplement and this has worked! I'm not certain if you can buy melatonin in the UK, I bought it in NY on recommendation from a friend who suffered the same. It has worked for me.

Ted_Hutchinson

WebJunkie007 wrote:

1. I replaced all the light bulbs in my house with full spectrum light bulbs.

Only the full spectrum lights sold for reptile housing contain uvb (vitamin d producing) spectrum so although having light more like sunlight may help you feel better it still won't affect your Vitamin D levels. Most of the research has indicated it is the brightness of the light rather than the quality which affects SAD the most so although it's great you feel better, other more money conscience savers may want to select those tubes which have the highest output rather than more expensive but less bright full spectrum bulbs.

WebJunkie007 wrote:

2. I was having trouble sleeping at night in the winter time because my body clock was so off. I now I take half a melatonin supplement and this has worked! I'm not certain if you can buy melatonin in the UK, I bought it in NY on recommendation from a friend who suffered the same. It has worked for me.

I think your right that you cannot buy melatonin here however several US companies post here and I've been wondering if it would be worth giving it a go. You say you take half a tablet but that would depend on the strength of tablet you are taking so perhaps you could say what it is half of ie 5mg?; 3mg or 1mg.?

zincoxide

Just thought I would say hello to the fellow MSE'rs that are suffering from S.A.D. This time of the year is the hardest with no natural sunlight hitting us whatsoever, so get your SAD lights on!

I've got the lightbox and two bulbs giving off the full spectrum of light and it's making me feel a little more productive than I was yesterday when I didn't have them on.

Anyone else got their lights on?

Ted_Hutchinson

Well I've got mine on but I now use fairly high power desklights rather than a proper sadlight. I will however be switching them off in a bit as I think they interfere with the melatonin cycle if you use them after 7pm and reset the body clock in the wrong direction. I wonder if anyone knows what this abstract is talking aboutO sweet spot where art thou? Light treatment of Seasonal Affective Disorder and the circadian time of sleep.

It's here Treating Chronobiologic Sleep and Mood Disorders with Bright Lightby Alfred J. Lewy, MD, PhD

Vitamin D vs broad spectrum phototherapy in the treatment of seasonal affective disorder.
When given 100,000iu of vitamin d All subjects receiving vitamin D improved in all outcome measures. The phototherapy group showed no significant change in depression scale measures.
You could 50.000iu vitamin d tablets to get this level of vitamin d as only 400iu tablets are available
The prices are as follows D3-5000iu(250ct) $15.70 D3-50,000iu(100ct) $30.00Shipping would run $10-$20 through USPS with shipping times of around a week or so. from [email="customerservice@bio-tech-pharm.com"]customerservice@bio-tech-pharm.com[/email]

or you could take 200 x 400iu tablets from Health direct and get 21% off going via QUIDCO and/or using the discount code EP781 to get £2 off orders over £10 and the current price is £4.95 for 360. The research suggests that Stoss therapy Mega doses as used above are fine if used occassionally, We use 4000iu daily and the skin makes 12000 iu in about 30 minutes so twice weekly suntan therapy would keep your levels up. We stock up in Summer but once we start staying in longer and the power of the sun declines we are unable to make sufficient from sunlight and the dietary sources don't add up to much. The calculator to work out when you can next strip off and enjoy some free vitamin d is here
If you are considering going the mega-dose route you would be best advised not to use suntan lamps at the same time. The full spectrum flourescent lamps in SADLIGHTS don't give out UVB rays so will not damage your eyes/skin like the suntanning might.
However the research doesn't support the benefits of full spectrum tubes over bright white.
The use of sunbeds for obtaining vitamin d rather than a suntan should present no increased risks at all for anyone See research for the statistics but only for young, sensitive skinned people was there a slight increase when getting a tan, so without staying under long enough to tan, just sufficient to start the process, should not increase the risk at all.

ToAoB

The winter darkness is starting to get to me when I struggle to get up in the mornings! I am sure some of you are the same.

A way round this may be getting a special clock timer/light unit but they are usually around the £100 mark!

Anyone knows where I can get one cheap?

Or even direct me to a DIY project where I can built a project to slowly activate a dimmer to come on over say 15 mins?

I could use a basic 240v timer switch but need a box in between the timer and the lamp!

Nile

Hello ToAoB


I've moved your thread to the 'Health MoneySaving' board, where 'SAD' threads appear. A Board Guide may merge your thread with one of them.


MOVING THREADS FOR BETTER RESPONSES

Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere(please see this rule) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email [email="abuse@moneysavingexpert.com"]abuse@moneysavingexpert.com[/email].

Kind Regards

Nile

rafi_2

When we have a thread moved to another board, could we have a link so that we can go direct to it so that we can continue to read the thread? I just did a quick search on the forums to 'Health MoneySaving' and it came up No Result. A link would be useful on the original thread to the new one.

Ted_Hutchinson

Sunrise alarm clocks previous thread
Has some useful points if you haven't already found it.
Don't forget that the Seasonal variation may be caused by the reduction in VitaminD levels and that raising these levels to the same as your summer levels may indeed solve the problem more effectively than light therapy as the research linked to in the other threads has shown is likely.

As we build up our Vit D reserves in the summer and use them from end of September the body is used to fluctuating levels. This means you can give yourself a mega dose monthly, and half mega dose fortnightly or just replace your daily 4000iu usuage until you can go outside and get it for free. If neither of these options appeal then 2 short visits to the local suntan palour not to stay long enough to tan, just sufficient (at least 10mins at most 30) will give you 12000iu. There is only a slight increased risk of skin cancer if you are young,and have a sensitive skin, for all other groups there is no proven increase in risk associated with sunbed use. If you are not staying long enough to get a tan or sunburnt there should indeed be no extra risk.
After the process has been initiated and you have created 12000iu of vitamin d the process slows so it becomes less cost effective to stay for longer visits for the purpose of Vitamin D synthesis That's why 2 visits to the solarium but you can either use supplements daily, weekly fortnightly or monthly as you will providing you allow for the fact that you use about 4000iu every day and at this time of year you may need a bit of catching up to do.
Healthy Direct via quidco using the publicly available code EP781 will get you the UK's lowest price vitamin D supplements until the end of January.