On the brink of insanity

two-for-one

Hello,

This post concerns noise nuisance. It will probably end up being pretty long so I shall apologise in advance and also thank you for reading and whatever advice you can give me.

I live in a 2 bed council flat with a 6 month baby and 3 year old child. I moved in about 5 months ago and for the last five months I have been experiencing noise nuisance from the flat above. Basically they have laminate flooring, and 3 young children. The youngest child is too young at the moment to make any noise, but they have 2 rowdy boys of 5 and 6 who treat the flat like a play ground. Basically the kids the kids run around and jump up and down like they are outside in the park especially on the weekends because they never seem to be taken out.

I have complained numerous times to the council, yet at the end of the day I just seem to go round and round in circles and there is not much improvement. They have been told put down floor coverings, but I believe that quite often these are taken up in the living room where I am experiencing the most noise.

I shall give an example of what I am experiencing: Yesterday (saturday) I left the flat at 9am and returned at 2pm. The kids upstairs were running around and jumping on my living room ceiling. From the sound I was hearing I do not believe they had any rugs down, the noise was awful. After a while I banged on the ceiling (which I have not done before and I have been told I shouldn't do) because the noise was so bad, but it did not make much difference. I got my 2 kids ( who are both not well at the moment) and took them out as I couldn't stand the nosie any longer. I got back at 5.30pm, and the noise was still continuing. I banged again; the noise eventually stopped for a while, but then started again. It turns out the people upstairs had friends round who brought another 2 kids with them and so all the children in the flat were running around and playing as though they were outside. I am sitting in the flat with a ill crying baby and noise above my head which is driving me absolutely crazy and I just want to scream and scream. I called Housing Patrol but by the time they arrived the noise had more or less stopped, which is the story of my life.

I have been told by the council that I need an official witness to the noise and so whenever there is noise I am suppose to call the Housing Patrol team who will come and listen to it, then decide if it is excessive. However, they only start from 6pm. Whenever I have called them, by the time they arrive the nosie has stopped. I need someone there and then when it is happening, but the system in place does allow that.

The council suggested mediation, I have been, they guy upstairs still has to go, but it is voluntary and he cancelled his last appointment. After we have each spoken to the mediators, we can then decide whether or not we would like to meet face to face. I have told the mediators that I am desperate to meet him in an arranged meeting so I can explain to him exactly what the problem is. When I first knocked on his door to explain there was a problem with noise, he was very hostile and denied his children were making any noise at all. After he got a visit from the council, I was told by the council he seemed "genuinely remorseful and shocked he had been accused of noise nuisance" yet that same day he then knocked on my door and was very aggresive and confrontational in his manner. We ended up arguing and he told me that if I had any problems, to never knock on his door again and to take it to the council and through the courts.

The District Housing Officer did once do an unannounced visit. The man's wife answered the door and pretended not to be able to speak English and did not allow the female DHO to enter the flat even though the DHO would have explained who she was and why she was there. This woman does speak English. After complaining to the council again, the official who had been liasing with the people upstairs then did another unannounced visit a couple of weeks after the first one. I spoke to him before he went upstairs and told him I had issues with 2 rooms: one of the back bedrooms and the living room. When he knocked on their door, it took a good few minutes for the woman to answer whilst her kids were getting excited and shouting by the door. Eventually she let the council officer in. When I eventually spoke to that officer again, he said that everythinng in the flat was fine, that there was adequate floor coverings down. When I pressed the point about the 2 rooms I had previously mentioned, he said that, no there was nothing down in that back bedroom because if they had rugs down, then they would not be able to open the door, and as for the living room, it was fine. I personally believe the woman took a while to open the door because she was busy putting rugs down in the living room (which is fairly large) and she had an excuse for the back bedroom that did not have any floor coverings. Sorry to be so long winded. When I told the council what I thought, they just sounded very exasperated with me, like I am some crazy, neurotic woman.

Well I am now truly on the brink of going insane. The noise improved for a while but when something like the last episode of noise occurs it seems to drive me over the edge. The neighbour opposite me (I shall call him S) who comes from the same continent as the family upstairs and knows them a bit has told me there is not much point talking to the man upstairs as he is arrogant and has no consideration for others. However S knows exactly what I am coming from and what I am experiencing and has said he is willing to back me up with the council, he did reply to a letter from the council backing me up as he had onceb being in my flat to witness the noise, but that does not seem to have made much difference with the council. I feel now, they think I am exagerating and am a pain in the neck.

I am really at my wits end. I dread coming home, I am strugging to cope, I feel my life is an absolute misery. I am on my own with 2 young kids and dealing with them and the noise upstairs is too much. I can't sleep, I am just desperate.

I am so sorry for rabbiting on. please could any one offer me any constructive advice? Thanks in advance

wymondham

That sounds extremely frustrating for you! You need to get this meeting with the guy upstairs and talk about this as you need to keep him onboard if you can.

It sounds like the family above you are not suited to living in a flat. It's not the childrens fault as they need to play, just that noise travels in a communal environment, regardless of what you do...

Just an idea, but I think a way forward could be through your doctor. Could you visit him to discuss the negative effect this is having on you and really push the effect on your children, getting him to contact the Council (you might have to play the part a bit here - are you good at drama??!!)

Unfortunately I don't think the Council will do anything constructive unless you really kick up a fuss and get quite insistant with them - call them everyday, make a big fuss, turn up at the offices making your feelings and desperation very clear! If you become a burden on them they will more likely take moves to sort it.

very best of luck!!!!

foxwales

You sound like your in a dire situation.

There are a few things to do to get around your useless local council, I had exactly the same problem and took it upon myself to deal with the matter much more efficiently than the local council ever could.

It sounds like you have tried the councils procedures but with little or no effect, therefore your first step should be to lodge an official complaint against the council for failing to act when the noise pollution is a detriment to your health and quality of life. They have an obligation to fully investigate your complaint.

If that fails, then you can pursue a private prosecution through the magistrates courts (not many people know this) under section 82 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.

Serve your notice in writing to your neighbours giving them a "reasonable time" to respond to your request, 14 days usually. If they do not reply or enter into mediation with you, you have sufficient grounds to pursue private prosecution by approaching your local magistrates court.

If successful the magistrates will place an abatement notice on your neighbour in that if they do not comply they will face legal proceedings which will be enforced by the courts and police.

The above may seem drastic, but usually the letter will do the trick.

A few things to note about bringing private prosecution is that you may be liable for court costs or any other associated legal costs if you employ a solicitor or your case is dismissed.

You should have evidence which would stand up in court, such as a log of every single noise disturbance, copies of local authority reports if you can get them and any recordings of the noise are very useful.

You should issue your letter if you decide to go down the private route with "Notice before Action" clearly stated in the letter along with quoting Section 82 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.

There we go, some options for you. Dealing with noisy neighbours is not easy but sometimes you get to your wits end and will try anything, I know I did.

Good luck

poppysarah

So they've not put any sound measuring devices in?

hethmar

Cant the council just write and tell them to put carpets down?

pickledtink

Oh God. Poor you. I know exactly how this feels and what it does to you. Had a similar problem which literally wrecked my health before I gave up and moved.
However although it took six months, as I was moving the various things I did actually started to work. The monsters finally ordered a load of carpet. :rolleyes:
First write a polite reasonable letter listing the problem and distress it is causing you to the upstairs neighbours. Send recorded delivery and keep copies. This shows at any later legal stage you have attempted reason and negotiation.
Make sure your doctor clearly records the effect this is having on your health and emotional well being and also that of your children. Ask for sleeping pills and tranquilisers specifically for this. ( whether you choose to actually take them or not) get a copy of this and also forward to all and everybody concerned.
You should lodge a noise nuisance complaint with the local environmental health department and ask that they install a listening device which will kick in and record the racket when it starts.
Before they do that keep a diary of every instance and the length and time plus how it affects your family. Wakes children, drowns out telephone conversations etc.
There are laws about adequate floor coverings for noise reduction in flats. check out the situation regarding your particular property with CAB.

Although you shouldn't retaliate I did actually try to make my similar nightmare neighbours get a taste of their own medicine. They were late risers who didn't work so made lots of noise until the early hours. Although I'd always been considerate before they moved in I often have to get up very early when working at peak periods so on would go my radio at 5 or 6 am and every morning when I got up.
There definitely are laws against laminate floors in upper flats and they should have fitted carpets down not just rugs.
I'm not sure from your post if this is a council rented flat or private. Either way seriously consider moving. The general bad feeling between you is always going to undermine your well being frankly. It all seems such a hassle to do all this especially when you are stressed and tired but nothing will improve until you do.
Keep us posted and hoping this gets resolved quickly for you.

hethmar

I have to be honest here - my son is asthmatic and when he bought his top floor flat the solicitor wrote to the management company asking whether he could put down laminate as dust mites set off his asthma - he was told he could.

He is a very quiet boy anyway and for 5 years he had no trouble until a misery of a middle aged woman moved in below. She seems to be fixated by his every movement and even imagines things when he isnt there and working away! She wouldnt see a mediator and now my son at a risk to his own health is putting down carpets in his bedroom area which is above her bedroom and she says she hears him dragging thing across the room at night ?????

Luckily he is about to move anyway, but you should check whether these people also had permission to have laminate for any reason too. If not then ask the management committee to write tothem requesting rugs or carpets be laid.

sooz

hethmar wrote: »

I have to be honest here - my son is asthmatic and when he bought his top floor flat the solicitor wrote to the management company asking whether he could put down laminate as dust mites set off his asthma - he was told he could.

He is a very quiet boy anyway and for 5 years he had no trouble until a misery of a middle aged woman moved in below. She seems to be fixated by his every movement and even imagines things when he isnt there and working away! She wouldnt see a mediator and now my son at a risk to his own health is putting down carpets in his bedroom area which is above her bedroom and she says she hears him dragging thing across the room at night ?????

Luckily he is about to move anyway, but you should check whether these people also had permission to have laminate for any reason too. If not then ask the management committee to write tothem requesting rugs or carpets be laid.

The problem is that laminates, particularly cheap ones laid just on that thin foam roll, accentuate & echo every noise. So whilst he may not think he's making any noise, just the sound of him walking normally can sound like a herd of stampeding elephants to anyone downstairs. In one student flat I lived in, they put a laminate on the kitchen floor of the upstairs flat. We could hear when they clicked the kettle on, when it boiled & 2 people discussing quietly which flavour tea bag!

If your son isn't moving, & is being forced to change the laminate, he should consider at the same time insulating under the floorboards, & putting down a vinyl (like amtico or similar) flooring.

PinkTwirl

I understand your frustration. I think laminate flooring should be banned in any flats at all. When I lived in my flat, someone moved into the flat above and the flat had laminate flooring. The woman's grandson was battering a ball off the floor repeatedly at 8;45 on a Sunday morning (day after I'd just been told my dad was in hospital and waiting to hear if I had to fly up or not). I complained and they were horrible about it and kept doing it. It was the floor above my bedroom!

I phoned the council - they sympathised but told me there wasn't really anything they could do. Luckily the woman seemed to be away a week later and I didn't really hear anyone in there again. Now I'm renting out the flat soon hopefully.

I hope it gets sorted for you because that has the potential to drive you potty.

sooz

OP - you have to keep badgering the council. Just because they can't send someone out before 6pm, doesn't mean your shouldn't report it. Call every single time a noise is disturbing you, leave a message with your reference number, & have it logged as a complaint. Eventually, they will have to either organise working hours visits to you, or leave monitoring equipment at your flat.

As pickledtink said, you should also keep a detailed log, stating what the noise was, & how it affected you, [eg. unable to watch (insert programme), unable to have a telephone conversation, woke children up etc] & regularly send copies of this into the EH dept (with your reference no.).

hethmar

Hi sooz, he isnt being forced to lay carpets, he is choosing to do it out of good will. He has already got large rugs in the living room. The kitchen and bathroom are tiled as are all the flats.

He is a very considerate person and felt quite upset that he could be causing any problems - however this lady is well OTT and slightly deranged - he had a mail from the management company saying she was complaining about him hoovering at 10.30 p.m. one night - he was actually working abroad at the time!. But hopefully the bedroom carpet will keep her happy for a while.