Father was POA - now he haas died???

patchwork_cat

the land registry should hold details of owners. Did G uncle and Aunt have the same surname? Are social services working under the misapprehension that G uncle and aunt were married and not brother and sister. Most married couples are joint tenants and as such Social services would be correct, but in this situation tenants in common is more normal and as such social services would be wrong in billing for care and G aunt could leave her share of house to whomever she liked.

How do you know if you are joint tenants or tenants in common? have a look at http://www.sprattendicott.co.uk/news/TenancyinCommon.html

sloughflint

jonny3979 wrote: »

Hi Thanks for the advice -

The sol who looked after the Aunt and Uncle's family (brother and sister) was approached by my father when the aunt died and he stated that the money from the Aunts will was fine to go to dad - hence he took it. Unfortunately this sol has died and when my father requested the paperwork to resolve these issues there was nothing but the POA doc and wills...

Looking through more paperwork which I have found it would appear that the tennant in common/joint tennant question has arisen and this was looked into - the only record of ownership for the house was the builder and the present day owner - nothing to say my aunt or uncle owned it at all?????

Can anyone offer advice on where this Joint Tennnat or Tennant In Common may be recorded???

Thank you

Jon

I do feel for you.
From what you are writing, it would appear that your father was already having difficulty determining how the property was owned but then so too must SS surely? Why are they insisting it was joint ownership?

I am aware that not all properties are registered at land registry so perhaps this is why your father struggled.

Perhaps others can confirm but I would have thought deeds would indicate ownership. Couldn't the conveyancer involved with the sale be an angle to approach?

Your GA's Will should hopefully state tenant in common but that is no guarantee that the ownership was really that.

Best of luck with this.

Debt_Free_Chick

I'm another one with Sloughflint on this, as my first question - reading from the beginning - was "how was the house owned? Tenants in common or joint tenants?"

If JT then the Aunt's will was defective as she had no share to gift, via her will. If TIC then all is OK.

When did GAunt & GUnc buy this property?

Debt_Free_Chick

sloughflint wrote: »

Perhaps others can confirm but I would have thought deeds would indicate ownership. Couldn't the conveyancer involved with the sale be an angle to approach?

Yes - and if the property was bought after a certain date (can't remember when, but fairly recently .... 2002???) then ownership (title) would be recorded on the Land Registry.

If it's not on the LR, then the deeds are the place to go. It could be quite tricky interpreting the deeds, but there is usually a "facing sheet" showing the (then) current owners.

Well done SF .... I think the ownership is the nub of the issue, here (FWIW)

jonny3979

I called the LR - they dont have the house on their records - it was bought about 1996-1998 -
There are some great leads here so I will spend some time looking at them - ill try and trace the conveyancer - check the GA's will.

I spoke to a sol - who suggested that it would be for SS to prove the ownership was a Joint tennanet agreement - if no paperwork can be found then I assume tey can never prove that and we may be able to approach SS for a refund??????

Many thanks

Jon

sloughflint

jonny3979 wrote: »

I spoke to a sol - who suggested that it would be for SS to prove the ownership was a Joint tennanet agreement - if no paperwork can be found then I assume tey can never prove that

Those were the lines I was thinking particularly if the Will was worded to suggest that the ownership was TIC ( no guarantee of course that it's true but it helps;)). Glad a solicitor is talking along those lines too. Good luck.

Savvy_Sue

Please remember to be nice to each other.

It is true that whatever's said here (or elsewhere on the boards) is no substitute for proper legal advice, for all sorts of reasons, but getting your head round the basics can only improve the legal advice you get. You have a better idea what questions to ask, for starters ...

localhero

As it seems that the property is not yet registered, you will need to get hold of the bundle of deeds, as these documents will determine whether or not the property was owned as joint tenants or not.

If there is no documentation to prove the ownership was as tenants in common, all is not lost. If you can show that the parties conduct had that intention, then your argument would succeed against the local authority. For example, if both wills clearly leave their respective shares to somebody other than the co-owner, then would support the fact they did own as tenants in common.

You are quite likely to require the opinion from a decent conveyancer who will be able to help you once the Deeds are located.

alisonp_2

Jonny3979

If the house was sold in 1996/98 then it must be registered at the Land Registry. You can search for the Title Number of the property by sending an Index map search to the Land Registry. If you go onto the Land Registry website and drawn down a "SIM" search form, fill in the property details, send to the Land Registry office for the area your GU's house is in, and this will confirm to you within a few days whether or not the property is registered.

In the meantime, I would make notes of everything, gather together as much information all the documents you can, e.g. the POA, Will (or copy Will) and records kept by your father of all bank accounts etc.and monies spent on behalf of his Uncle, also take your father's Death Certificate and obtain legal advice from a Solicitor who specialises in Court of Protection work. ( A List of these can be found at
http://www.solicitors.co.uk/probate_solicitors_probate.asp

sloughflint

alisonp wrote: »

Jonny3979

If the house was sold in 1996/98 then it must be registered at the Land Registry. You can search for the Title Number of the property by sending an Index map search to the Land Registry. If you go onto the Land Registry website and drawn down a "SIM" search form, fill in the property details, send to the Land Registry office for the area your GU's house is in, and this will confirm to you within a few days whether or not the property is registered.

In the meantime, I would make notes of everything, gather together as much information all the documents you can, e.g. the POA, Will (or copy Will) and records kept by your father of all bank accounts etc.and monies spent on behalf of his Uncle, also take your father's Death Certificate and obtain legal advice from a Solicitor who specialises in Court of Protection work. ( A List of these can be found at
http://www.solicitors.co.uk/probate_solicitors_probate.asp

I've never seen that link before, alisonp. Out of curiosity I searched on my area. It seems quite restrictive.
Perhaps the law society search facility would throw out a few more choices?
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/findasolicitor.law