NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

fivealive_2

goodbyepci wrote: »

Did anyone see the BBC Newsline coverage of PMS tonight

It was very revealing

He said he had ignored the rumours circulating in October (he must have heard them then!)


http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsline/

Oh he heard them alright, as did many others who are either Ministers or move in those circles.
:silenced:
Rev Davidson is the first Minister that I have heard saying that they still have their money in the PMS. I felt that he spoke from the heart, but as for that other Rev.................words fail me!

expat68

OldJohn wrote: »

return they are getting now?) they would have been in line for a nice dividend - now everyone gets nothing, thank you to all who grabbed their money and ran.
quote]

I agree with many of your words but one could also argue that had the PMS directors kept a bit more cash and a bit less development land and buy to lets this whole situation could be avoided. For those who took their money they are undoubtedly thinking better a 0.5% return in a FSA regulated bank than a -40% loss in the PMS. From a previous post it would appear church congregations were among those who withdrew - not setting the best example.

expat68

I love the internet and the Freedom of Information act - seems DETI was/is responsible for the proper regulation of industrial and provident societies. From the DETI website - document dated 3 November 2008. Its all there is black and white (though I made it red and blue for fun). Proper regulation clearly means a blind panic to get emergency legislation through to allow them to be put into administration.

8.2 DETI Business Functions and Services

This section identifies classes of information relating to specific business functions and services that fall within the remit of the Department.

CORPORATE REGULATION

The ‘Registry of Companies, Credit Unions and Industrial and Provident Societies’ is responsible for the incorporation of companies, credit unions and industrial and provident societies; the registration of documents required to be delivered under companies, societies, insolvency and related legislation; the provision of a legal framework for the proper regulation of companies, credit unions and industrial and provident societies

http://www.detini.gov.uk/cgi-bin/downutildoc?id=2301

goodbyepci

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/a-difficult-time-for-presbyterian-savers-14177892.html

goodbyepci

Belfast Telegraph, a bit right at the end of this article
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/mandelson-pledges-support-for-northern-ireland-economy-14177667.html

Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0207/1233867926189.html

BelfastGran

Thank You Goodbyepci For Useful Newspaper Clippings.

john2009

Hi folks,

I have been watching this thread for a while. I drifted from the PCI a few years ago but my parents remained loyal and invested in PMS. I work for a large accountancy firm in Manchester and my firm has an office in Belfast. I have been making some enquiries and thought I would share the following with you:

1. Getting any real info from the administrator about PMS lending policies etc and the directors will be impossible. But it will all come out eventually. The administrator must report his findings to DETI within 6 months from his appointment and DETI then have 18 months to issue proceedings against the directors.

2. The administrator is not one of the big four accountancy firms but he used to be a partner in one of them. So we should get the expertise of an experienced practitioner but for half the cost!

3. If an administrator does not thoroughly investigate the directors, he will lose his licence and get sued.

4. Administrations are not cheap and the costs of this administration could be in excess of £1million. Apparently the costs of the Woolies administration was £4million.

5. My firm's office is Belfast also use the administrator’s legal adviser and they rate him very highly.

6. I have asked some of my insolvency colleagues to look at the proposals put forward by the administrator and they thought an “orderly wind down” was the only way forward.

7. The administrator cannot give us answers at the moment but apparently there is a better way to deal with our questions about what went wrong. In England where a company fails but it is in the public interest to examine what happened an investigator can be appointed by the DTI. It is like a public enquiry. There should be similar laws in NI but it is worth checking out.

Will keep you informed of any other bits and pieces I pick up.

J


Ps – thanks for posting the newspaper clippings!

amadan22

just heard an interesting quote:-"as a rule, a complacent business is an unsafe business".
thanks to FIVEALIVE for putting a great big smile on my face! mo chara, tog a bog e.

non_member

Reading this thread one question comes to mind...Why?

Why are members of a Mutual Society open only to members of a particular Church now looking to others to help them out of a hole which in the main was created by the Directors and Staff of their own Mutual Society.

Further it is clear their Church has a role to play and with all those expensive manses and renovated Churches why at the very least have yhey not used their undoubted wealth to at least help those suffering extreme hardship.

For the rest of the investors surely they have to join together and get the Church leaders Society Directors and key staff into the witness box in the High Court. Then the truth will out and then those whose actions helped bring about the situation can be held accountable.

Then and only then should the taxpayer be asked to help.

sickasaparrot

WELCOME ABOARD JOHN2009:hello:

Thank you for the very relevant information