NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

goodbyepci

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/editorial/What-about-the-Province-in.6252195.jp

Toastandbutter

Lester_F wrote: »

ToastandButter,

Ernest Howie referred to Northern Rock. Northern Rock is not a building society. It is a Bank.

All those with money deposited in the PMS were savers. (Although some politicans have tried to argue rather unconvincingly that they were investors and not savers).

Loan receipt holders in the PMS were classed by the PMS as creditors and were in fact lending their deposits to the PMS. This fact is at the core of the Court's judgement.

PMS shareholders were not shareholders in the normal meaning of that term; that is, those who had invested in shares listed on a Stock Market.

The comparision made by Ernest Howie between shareholders in Northern Rock and shareholders in the PMS was completely false.

Thanks Lester

I feel you are conflating two seperate issues here and appear to be factually in error.

First you start by examining whether PMS members were savers or investors. This is not the issue at all that I was discussing.

It appears to me that PMS savers have a strong argument to say they were savers and not investors; I&PS shares could not appreciate or depreciate, were not linked to the stock market and members were assured by PMS that there was no speculation with their money.

I think we are in agreement on the saver/investor debate.

Where I took issue was in the apparent blame being heaped on Mr Howie for the High Court outcome.

It was the judge and not Mr Howie who found that shareholders were not entitled to be considered creditors due to the legal parallels with building society shareholders.

I quote from the High Court judgement here, but I also suspect this would have been the outcome even if Mr Howie had been involved or not.

Wouldnt Mr Boyd have had to ask the High Court to clarify this anyway, even if Mr Howie was not involved?

High Court finding;-




"....The principles regarding notices of withdrawal in the case of building societies were equally applicable to industrial and provident societies. In his judgment at pages 404, 405 Maugham J said:

“The main question that I have to decide is when and in what circumstances the holder of the withdrawable shares becomes a creditor of the Society in lieu of being a shareholder and, so to speak, a partner in a going concern. It is not immaterial to note that the notice, although in the first instance it had to be and in fact remained at six months notice, might have been reduced to six days. I will say here by way of preface to what I am going to decide, that the material date, from the point of view of the Society as a whole and from the point of view of the possibility of the Boards being able to carry out its duties is the date when the notice, whether it be six months or six days, expires. The rule in my opinion clearly points out that when the notice matures the member becomes entitled to receive the sum which is paid up on his share and becomes a creditor of the Society.”

[12] I apply that conclusion to the present case, conscious of the approval by the Court of Appeal of the judgment at first instance. A shareholder in the Presbyterian Mutual Society Limited becomes a creditor of the Society when he has an entitlement to receive the sum which he has paid up on his share. That is either at the time he applies or, if the Society is imposing a 21 day period as it did in October 2008, at the conclusion of that period. It follows therefore that those shareholders who did not withdraw their shares under Rule 11 either before any notice period was imposed or after the expiry of a 21 day notice period, in mid November 2008, cannot be creditors of the Society. This seems to me a central difficulty on which the well intentioned submissions of the administrator must founder."

sincerely

T&B

joylikes2shop

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/northern_ireland/8644098.stm

BETRAYED

expat68 wrote: »

The Administrator was

i) meant to be in a position to declare and pay first dividend to creditors by end April

ii) Organise a postal vote to nominate a creditors commitee

Is anyone aware of any progress on either on these? I would have thought there might be a little bit of urgency on these matters but it appears not...

Totally agree with you re. Creditors' Committee.
I understand there could be a payment to creditors by May1.
A friend of mine was told this by the Administrator's Office last week

I have repeatedly written to Mr Boyd on the matter of creditor representation and pointing out that many larger creditors would be willing to help in a resolution of PMS that would assist the greatly disadvantaged shareholders.

goodbyepci

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/election-2010/Tories-39would-be-unionist39.6255084.jp

goodbyepci

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/mps-must-take-their-seats-and-do-the-job-14782523.html

crazymess

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/election-2010/Hague-39support39-on-PMS-and.6257651.jp

PMSSaver

Current Information
Update from the Administrator 30 April 2010
The Administrator is pleased that he is now in a position to process and post cheques to creditors in respect of the first interim distribution of 12p in the £. Because of the Bank Holiday on Monday and a complex procedure for checking payments, posting will take place next Wednesday, slightly later than originally anticipated. Creditors should receive their cheques and an accompanying letter by the end of next week.

joylikes2shop

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/First-PMS-cheques-in-post.6266547.jp

crazymess

Current Information


Update from the Administrator 5 May 2010

The Administrator has today written to creditors of the Society declaring a first interim distribution of 12p in the £ and enclosing cheques. He is required to give creditors an indication of when a further dividend is expected to be paid. In the letter, the Administrator says he anticipates making a distribution at least annually to creditors and more frequently if he has sufficient monies available to do so. The Administrator points out that he is required to base this time-frame on the current position, even though the Northern Ireland Executive has outlined a package of financial assistance. At the time of writing, the Administrator expects it may be some time before the Northern Ireland Executive can obtain the necessary approvals it requires for its proposal to be put into effect. He cannot formally assess the implications for members/creditors until the details of an approved plan are presented to him.

In his letter to creditors, the Administrator says he will be writing separately to them regarding the procedure for establishing a creditors’ committee.

The Administrator’s six-monthly progress report for the period to 16 May 2010 will be sent to members/creditors in mid June.