NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

brick

jon_groovy wrote: »

you were a director of something that !!!!ed 100million quid up against a wall......in the real world (i.e. outside the sheltered world of ministers) you wouldn't even get the chance to stand up and embarrass yourself

The ironic thing is, had it been the "real" world, the financial institution concerned would most probably have been assisted by HMG (no saver loss) and director(s) would likely have left with an attractive severance package and/or pension.

Just based on what I have observed in financial sector over the past year or so.

So not even the directors get a good deal when it comes to this unreal parallel world comprising financial institution that is PMS!

brick

D.A. wrote: »

If you had no clue what you were getting into when you decided to be a director...

I think it sort of reinforces what you said a while back about importance of having the right set of skills...

D.A. wrote: »

One point I forgot to make in my other post though is that maybe PCI will finally wake up and realise that ministers are NOT always the best people to put in charge of running things.
PCI, a minister's training enables him to be a pastor, not a manager!

crazymess

Think the ITV Live programme was good!!!

The comment about 60p in the £1 will shock a lot of people - but is probably about right.

purt

Folks, I listened the coverage on the news last night and was shocked at a remark by Julian O'Neill that one of the Directors had expressed concern at the number of threats he had received from savers/investors wanting to sue him. Apparently to do so would be 'unchristian'.

I have not been caught up in this mess personally but have watched the saga unfold on here. I felt slightly angered by the remark above.

What is more 'unchristian'? Duping the likes of pensioners into thinking they were investing their life's savings in a safe place and which would help their church? Gambling with those savings on the property market when really you ought to have been lending it to help churches? Washing your hands of the whole thing when it went belly up?

It sickens me that the whole 'unchristian' mantra is being wheeled out as a defence. Your Church, folks, is morally corrupt in my view and I'd take the 'unchristian' tag with a pinch of salt.

OldJohn

Hi all, trauma, drama, lies, deceit - we've had it all, one thing we are still in short supply of is FACTS. Just listened to the UTV report - they mention 60% again. No one to my knowledge has any facts to base this figure on. The Administrator will be the one who will reveal what we get. We must always remember that in general the media is after headlines, they use sound bites to make us believe they have facts - they don't know any more than most of us.
I've said before that I was on a board - same as Directors of PMS - like them I wasn't paid, so I turned up, listened to what was said, and based on the information given by the 'paid' manager, we voted on accepting or declining his proposal. Turned out he was telling us only what he wanted us to hear, but we were in trouble and he was keeping it under the carpet for as long as possible. We discovered just in time what was happening (from a third party with a conscience) and we were able to avert our own little disaster.
I've listened to what some of the Directors have said and I believe they have been hung out to dry. It's easy to be outside and condemn them but I would guarantee that if anyone of us was in the same position we would be as easily duped as I was. I asked questions in my role and I'm not stupid, but I was duped (lied to).

We are all human, we make mistakes, trust people in positions of authority and usually are let down.

I remember Frank Rowan (the original Secretary), saying to me, 'we are not a bank', when you put money into the Society it is not primaraily to make money, it's to help other Presbyterians, any Dividend was a bonus, unfortunately the six figure sums in recent years invested was because there was a good return, and that's why folk lifted it out - fear of losing it - safer in a bank!!

The truth will come out in the end, but our immediate need is to have the needy supplied with some funds now.
HMG did indeed spook those who lifted their money and therefore should come up with a loan to help.
So keep emailing those who can influence a positive outcome for us all.

Does anyone still believe the Society can be rescued?

freddiemae

I think the 60p in the pound takes into account the fact that commercial property is down about 40% in price from the time it was bought by PMS. Also development land will be down at least 50% if you can get anyone to buy it now. BTL properties again down 40% since they were all bought at peak prices. This is also taking into account money lent to developers who went bust.

The PCI also used this figure to write down the value of their deposits in the PMS. (quoted in an earlier post about the general assembly)

However as we discussed earlier the creditors have first pick of the pot unless they vote for mutuality so they may get back 65% and the shareholders nothing. No-one knows but the administrator and he's not telling anyone yet.

I actually felt quite sickened by the person who said it was unchristian to sue - it is worse to be in a position of authority and tell lies to innocent victims as many of these shareholders were -- trusting their church to always be truthful.

crazymess

Oldjohn

Always respect what you have to say.

But you need to look at the previous accounts from Admin and you will see where the 60p in the £1 has come from - and this is everything goes mutual - and perhaps things have got slightly worse.

We must not be naive (can never spell that word!) the situation is bleak unless we get a cash injection.

To date:

Westminister Gov - says its not their responsbility - risk capital etc - but perhaps a glimmer of hope today from Shaun Woodward - although they have other worries at present!

DETI - not their responsibility - Directors should have applied for regulation if doing regulated activity.

PCI - they are not legally linked - "we couldn't possibly financially sort this out".

Directors of PMS - some have said their shock at being potentially sued and how unchristianlike!!!!!!


Eh - who is responsible?


Surely they - the Government, DETI, PCI and the PMS Directors are not saying "its the SAVERS' fault!!!!!!"

BETRAYED

OldJohn wrote: »

Hi all, trauma, drama, lies, deceit - we've had it all, one thing we are still in short supply of is FACTS.

The truth will come out in the end, but our immediate need is to have the needy supplied with some funds now.
HMG did indeed spook those who lifted their money and therefore should come up with a loan to help.
So keep emailing those who can influence a positive outcome for us all.

Does anyone still believe the Society can be rescued?

The Society must be rescued.
Best way of giving under 20K savers money back.
PCI just want it to go away. Disgraceful.
Proper Legislation and Regulation will restore confidence.
If this does not happen the only option is to sue directors for incompetence or operating illegally.
Could Government gaurantees to British and foreign banks which created our problem be referred to the European Court?

BETRAYED

brick wrote: »

I think it sort of reinforces what you said a while back about importance of having the right set of skills...

We did have accountants and solicitors serving as directors.

fivealive_2

crazymess wrote: »

Oldjohn

Always respect what you have to say.

Me too. :T