Magistrates and Penalty Fare

loks_2

Hello all, long time lurker first time poster!

I have been reading all the posts on the penalty fare charges made by the train companies with interest for some time now out of general interest, but never thought that i would actually need the help myself! So here is the story...

I have just received a magistrates summons, stating that around 6 months ago i, contrary to railway byelaw 18(1), i entered a non-compulsory ticket area for the purpose of traveling on the railway without valid ticket. Full witness statement etc is included in the package, including plea entering etc. Costs of over£100 are bing applied for.

This is the first i have heard from the TOC since the incident happened. I was traveling to work, as every morning, got to my destination station, took out my season ticket to find alas i hadn't brought it! So i walked up to someone from the railway company and explained to him i had obviously forgotten it, he was a very nice man, said not to worry it happens to people all the time, and that i had two choices, pay for a ticket today and claim back the money by sending a photocopy of my rail pass to them, or fill in a form which would let me continue traveling and then send of a photocopy of my rail pass to them along with the form. I decided on the latter, carried on my journey, sent off my photocopy and form the next day, thought no more about it.

And now this.

My question, apart from any general advice, is, where do i go from here? I feel incredibly angry about this. I have my season ticket for that month still, i have been using that route for years without a problem like this before. A court summons seems very excessive to me. I feel the person who i dealt with at the station, although pleasant, was not being entirely honest about what the form was, that it could lead to a legal case, otherwise i would have just paid the fare for that day and reclaimed it! He made me feel it was just a formality. Also, as i sent them all that they asked for, i do not understand why they are pursuing me? Im worried about this being a criminal case too as i work in education so the implications could be far reaching and out of all proportion...

If you have managed to read all that, Any help would be greatly appreciated !

L

Hintza

I don't know but a letter/call to the ombudsman might be in order?

robt_2

What do the witness statements say?

Have they sent a copy of the form you sent in? What was it you signed?

Even if it was to go to court I can see it being thrown out as you still have the valid ticket. Magistrates don't like their time being wasted.

ticketcollector

Hintza wrote: »

I don't know but a letter/call to the ombudsman might be in order?

There isn't one.

robt wrote: »

Even if it was to go to court I can see it being thrown out as you still have the valid ticket. Magistrates don't like their time being wasted.

I doubt this very much, if the TOC has decided to take it to court now.
The railway laws are complex and always in favour of the railway. It is for you to prove you had a ticket there and then, not that you had one at home.
The statement you signed will say that at XX:XX on DDMM2008 you did not have a valid ticket on you. That is all they need to prosecute.
"You entered a train or attempted to enter a train for the purpose of travelling without having a valid ticket."
"You were unable to show the inspector or servant of the railway a valid ticket on demand"
"You entered a non-compulsory ticket area for the purpose of travelling on the railway without valid ticket"

These are just 3 examples of where not having a ticket there and then is an offence.

robt_2

ticketcollector wrote: »

I doubt this very much, if the TOC has decided to take it to court now.
The railway laws are complex and always in favour of the railway. It is for you to prove you had a ticket there and then, not that you had one at home.
The statement you signed will say that at XX:XX on DDMM2008 you did not have a valid ticket on you. That is all they need to prosecute.
"You entered a train or attempted to enter a train for the purpose of travelling without having a valid ticket."
"You were unable to show the inspector or servant of the railway a valid ticket on demand"
"You entered a non-compulsory ticket area for the purpose of travelling on the railway without valid ticket"

These are just 3 examples of where not having a ticket there and then is an offence.

I have to disagree with that. It is not unknown for the TOC to send a representative to court to settle with you before your case is heard - they know that the outcome probably will not be favourable to them.

I do agree that the law is in the railways favour, but I also stand by what I said in that it is a waste of court time, especially as the OP does in fact have a ticket, regardless of forgetting it that day. If they bought a new ticket each day and forgot, then fair enough. But this is a season ticket. Remember that the case would not be heard by a judge, but my magistrates who have no legal training.

That is not to say of course that people do not get fined etc.

markelock

nice to know train companies are trying to get the real offenders too.

obviously the vast amount of money spent by purchasing a season ticket (which I would have thought they would have a record of) spanning the period before and after, is now being put to one side.

absolute joke. another good reason to avoid using public transport.

loks_2

Thanks for all these posts...

robt wrote: »

What do the witness statements say?

The witness statement is obviously just a default company statement, that i failed to produce ticket etc. It does say that he told me i was being given a penalty fare, which he did not, he told me it was a penalty fare if i didn't send in a copy of my pass. Not sure this will make any difference though?

robt wrote: »

Have they sent a copy of the form you sent in? What was it you signed?

No, they say they have received no contact from me since the incident. Which seems a trifle convenient to me...

Any more help would be appreciated. I am thinking of writing to the TOC explaining, but not sure if this will help as i assume they cannot stop the court process? Or can they? I have never been involved in anything like this before so i don't even know how the court system works to be honest! Well, i hope it works....

I will try and contact Citizens Advice, as i would be turning up in court on my own i guess (certainly couldn't afford a lawyer!)

Thanks Folks

L

Quentin

loks wrote: »

My question, apart from any general advice, is, where do i go from here?

The answer here is you go and plead your case to the magistrate.

See what help you can get foc from the cab, but bearing in mind you would end up with a record over this if found guilty, (which may or may not concern you), you might want to invest in a solicitor's consultation, even if you feel you cannot afford one to handle the case in court.

loks_2

Any more advice would be appreciated!

Altarf

loks wrote: »

So i walked up to someone from the railway company and explained to him i had obviously forgotten it, he was a very nice man, said not to worry it happens to people all the time, and that i had two choices, pay for a ticket today and claim back the money by sending a photocopy of my rail pass to them, or fill in a form which would let me continue traveling and then send of a photocopy of my rail pass to them along with the form.

What was the form that you filled in and sent back?

Tigsteroonie

When you sent the photocopy & form back, did you do so by Recorded or Special Delivery? If not, then it is possible that they didn't receive it, hence why they say they have had no contact from you and are taking court action.