Primary school appeal - valid reasons?

Jo_R_2

I'm not sure if anyone will know the answers to this but will ask anyways...

I have just been speaking to my HV about our current situation. My DD1 aged 4 has just started reception at our local primary school.

I am pregnant with baby #3 and we will be moving house soon, more than likely out of the catchment area.

DD2 is aged 2 and we need to apply for her school place next November (2009.) We are entertaining a number of possibilities currently, one of which is that we keep DD1 at her present school and despite moving out of catchment, put down DD1's school as our preferred choice.

I know the likelihood as things stand of DD2 getting a place as an out-of catchment sibling are very low, indeed the school is a very popular one and prior to DD1 starting, the headteacher told us that children even in the catchment have been refused places into reception as those living furthest away from the school.

What I wanted to know is if we were to go down this route, DD2 was refused a place and we appealed, what criteria do schools consider 'valid' on appeal? Is it different for every school? This is an 'ordinary' primary (if you like!)

I have a handful of reasons centred around the stability of my girls, the things that have happened over the last year or two and the resultant ups and downs they have both experienced. I don't know however if this is 'enough' - I am happy to go into a little more detail if needed to answer the question - so would like any info from anyone that knows, basically.

I should point out there are a handful of options available to us at the moment, but I am specifically asking about this particular avenue right now.

car25

Get Ben Rooney's book "How to win your school appeal" from the library (you can reserve it if they don't keep a copy in their stock and they will source it from another library for you), it may give you some pointers. If you are talking about Reception appeal, you will be restricted by infant class size of maximum of 30 in England, and unless you can prove that the admissions dept made a mistake, then I think the chances of winning an appeal will be low.

When you have moved (assuming you do so before your DD2 school application), why don't you move your DD1 to your new local catchment school, then apply for catchment for your DD2.

Good luck.

galvanizersbaby

Jo_R wrote: »

I'm not sure if anyone will know the answers to this but will ask anyways...

What I wanted to know is if we were to go down this route, DD2 was refused a place and we appealed, what criteria do schools consider 'valid' on appeal? Is it different for every school? This is an 'ordinary' primary (if you like!)

I have a handful of reasons centred around the stability of my girls, the things that have happened over the last year or two and the resultant ups and downs they have both experienced. I don't know however if this is 'enough' - I am happy to go into a little more detail if needed to answer the question - so would like any info from anyone that knows, basically.

I should point out there are a handful of options available to us at the moment, but I am specifically asking about this particular avenue right now.

I appealed for my son as he was refused a place at our catchment school in reception class - the school places had been filled with children out of catchment but who's parents were supposedly churchgoers at the church to which the school was affliated.

I am a single parent and at the time I didn't drive which would have meant a 45 min walk to get my son to the next school which had a place for him and then work for me and nursery for my daughter.

Basically due to the government legistation of no more than 30 per class in reception my appeal was refused.

I'm pretty sure the headmistress felt pretty bad about it but her hands were tied.
My son did start at the school 45 mins away and I had to pay somebody to take him to school every morning but fortunately a place became available at a great school nearer on his first term so it worked out fine.

I think re criteria - all schools differ but for most catchment, sibling at the school are pretty high on the list - I do know though from experience that they are strict on the 30 per class for reception age children

Good luck

moominmoo

Hi there

I believe the only grounds for appeal in Reception, Y1 and Y2 are that a) you can prove that another LEA would have admitted your child under the same circumstances or b) you can prove that your LEA failed to follow their own admissions procedure.

My son was refused a place at our "catchment" school as we were moving to the area and we took ages to exchange on our house and thus missed the deadline. So all of the on-time applications, out of catchment included, were processed before ours. We went on the waiting list and actually got a place 2 days into the school term, 7 days before our appeal was to take place. Our grounds for appeal were going to be that another LEA admitted all catchment applicants if there was no other school less than a mile away. But we didn't get to that stage so I don't know if it would have been successful!

My advice would be to enquire into as many LEA's admission criteria as possible to see if you can find one that would admit your child in your situation. Out of interest, I know that when we were on the waiting list, there were children ahead of us who lived further away, but as they had siblings in the school, they were a priority. Don't know if they were out of catchment though.

We thought it was the end of the world when our son had to start at the other school, but were so happy when only 2 days in he got a place. We worried about the upheaval, but as he hadn't yet learnt the names of anyone at school, whereas he had been to preschool with those in the new school, he really didn't mind at all.

Good luck

Spendless

The only people I know that succesfully appealed was circumstances similar to galvanizers baby.

People from outside the parish had got places by claiming to be religious at our local cofe school, over people living in the parish but the published criteria said that you had to be a regular attender of church and this be supported by your vicar and this hadn't happened, so the parents living in parish got it on appeal as the school had not stuck to its own criteria. This made the total number of pupils 34 for reception and the school got told it had to put up a port-a-cabin or similar to accomodate the kids.

I did have a place for my child at this school, which would have made the class size 35 but a school that can't stick to its own rules didn't appeal to me in the slightest and I gave up the place in favour of our community school instead.

Jo_R_2

Thanks all, really useful.

It would be applying for a reception place, and there are 30 places at DD1's school. I also know there are 3 applications for every place :eek:

From what has been said, it doesn't sound like there would really be a chance of DD2 getting a reception place if we moved out of catchment. If we were to stay in catchment, as a sibling then I wouldn't be worrying at all.

I know it's not the end of the world (though for some reason it feels quite difficult - I must be really soft!) at the thought of changing their schools, but they've had a pretty rough last year-and-a-half and if at all possible I wanted to keep some sense of stability in the people around them both. At the end of the day though, it's DD1 who went to the preschool and the local nursery, and who is very attached to the people around her. So in that sense it worries me more taking DD1 out of her current school, but for DD2 it's less of an issue what school she goes to - she hasn't started preschool yet so nothing would be changing for her as such.

I do know that where we're thinking of moving to (I've posted a little about this previously), the catchment school reception is full at the mo, as is the next nearest school, so that would be another issue to contend with!

galvanizersbaby

Jo_R wrote: »

Thanks all, really useful.

It would be applying for a reception place, and there are 30 places at DD1's school. I also know there are 3 applications for every place :eek:

From what has been said, it doesn't sound like there would really be a chance of DD2 getting a reception place if we moved out of catchment. If we were to stay in catchment, as a sibling then I wouldn't be worrying at all.

I know it's not the end of the world (though for some reason it feels quite difficult - I must be really soft!) at the thought of changing their schools, but they've had a pretty rough last year-and-a-half and if at all possible I wanted to keep some sense of stability in the people around them both. At the end of the day though, it's DD1 who went to the preschool and the local nursery, and who is very attached to the people around her. So in that sense it worries me more taking DD1 out of her current school, but for DD2 it's less of an issue what school she goes to - she hasn't started preschool yet so nothing would be changing for her as such.

I do know that where we're thinking of moving to (I've posted a little about this previously), the catchment school reception is full at the mo, as is the next nearest school, so that would be another issue to contend with!

It probably depends how high up the criteria sibling is at your daughters current school.

Looks like if the catchment school reception is full at the moment then your DS1 will have to stay at her current school

I understand your concerns re taking DD1 out of her current school - I would be the same about my 2 children.
DS didn't bat an eyelid at moving schools having only completed one term bless him but there again he's very laid back.

I am sure it will sort itself out somehow - lets hope come the time it all falls in to place :cool:

Jo_R_2

Re: the sibling criteria - siblings of current pupils already in catchment are highest priority after looked-after children... However siblings out of catchment come further down, after catchment siblings and catchment children, but before out of catchment children.

I'm a worrier lol - we've spoken to DD1 about moving and whilst she adores the idea of moving to a bigger house, she is completely against moving schools. However at the end of the day she is only 4 and probably won't remember this time much when she's older... I just feel guilty for making changes in her life when she's settled now after things being hectic and so up and down, 'just because' I've met someone else iyswim?

However looking at it from the other side, it's a new start with family stability for her and DD2, a baby brother on the way and an extended local family via OH's mum, so of course it's a lovely thing as well!

Spendless

Jo-when is your baby due? I think I'd be tempted to stay put until the closing date for your dd2's school place. Here they take the address for catchment purposes where you live on that date, you would need to check with your own council if the same rule applies. Here applications have to be in by October/November, it varies if it's a nursery.primary or secondary school place you are applying to and I can't remember which is which.

I realise your current place might be a bit cramped doing this butit won't be forever and will baby be sleeping in your room to start off with?

lindsaygalaxy

Are you sure you will need to apply for her place next year? every area is different but you usually apply for a place when they are 4, as they will be 5 in the foundation year, unless it is a nirsery attached to the school which they go part time to when they are 3?

Jo_R_2

lindsaygalaxy wrote: »

Are you sure you will need to apply for her place next year? every area is different but you usually apply for a place when they are 4, as they will be 5 in the foundation year, unless it is a nirsery attached to the school which they go part time to when they are 3?

lindsaygalaxy -Yep - the council told me this - DD1 was 3 when I did her school application and DD2 will be 3 come next November - in fact DD1 isn't even five until next year.

Spendless - when I did DD1's school application it had to be in by the beginning of December if I remember rightly. And both DDs have been in with me until they've been a year so theoretically not a problem, but practically - OH is going crazy with the lack of space (can't say I'm that keen on it!) and I can't see him wanting to stay put for another year. Baby is due in February btw.