Andrew Marr The History of Modern Britain

Pobby

Just watched this episode of the rather excellent above program. It was about the Thatcher years. Managing to keep my dinner down every time I heard Thatch open her gob, it brought home to me the very real comparison of todays economy. The lack of control in lending, gross consumerism, the selling off of the "family silver". The very real divide between rich and poor. It is to me like history repeating itself but this time I fear the worst.

With the recession following on from the "economic revolution" it was a question of a sharp decline with interest rates rising quickly burning out the ones that had over borrowed. This time, the end of the "economic miracle" we have rates declining, something I fear will prolong the pain.

jamescredmond

there is an historical context,as you and I well know, but I doubt many would listen.

it will be interesting to hear how history judges this woman and her 'revolution'.

Pobby

There does seem to me a lot of comparisons to the present day. Over spending, hpi and then the wheels fall off. You would think that we have learnt the lesson the there cycles in the market. Surely there is a way to keep the highs lower to make the lows higher if that makes sense. Some how we seem to charge in when times are good to lick our wounds when times are bad.

Sapphire

Pobby wrote: »

There does seem to me a lot of comparisons to the present day. Over spending, hpi and then the wheels fall off. You would think that we have learnt the lesson the there cycles in the market. Surely there is a way to keep the highs lower to make the lows higher if that makes sense. Some how we seem to charge in when times are good to lick our wounds when times are bad.

I fear we will never learn the lesson – human greed and short-sightedness always takes over. Today, people are far more indebted than they were in Margaret Thatcher's time – and have much higher expectations about what they 'deserve'. Most younger people have never experienced real hardship (although they think they are doing so), whereas many of those who were in heavy debt in the early 80s had lived through quite hard times (by comparison) in their childhoods in the 50s and 60s.

Pobby

One thing that struck me was the poll tax riots. I started getting political in my teens and went on demos and marches from CND in the 60`s all the way up to poll tax demos. I find it quite amazing that folk are so prepared to moan and do nothing about it these days. Sure you have to be a bit more careful due to law changes but with the internet it would be so easy. Ah blow it, don`t bother, might miss Big Brother!

Kez100

I also read somewhere that the Wall Street Crash started with too much credit.I couldn't believe it - credit, in the early 1900's? Yes, money lent to buy new Ford cars to people who couldn't repay! These repeats are as old astime - why do they keep letting them happen at ever more dangerous levels?

Andrew Marrs series is really interesting.

Sapphire

Kez100 wrote: »

I also read somewhere that the Wall Street Crash started with too much credit.I couldn't believe it - credit, in the early 1900's? Yes, money lent to buy new Ford cars to people who couldn't repay! These repeats are as old astime - why do they keep letting them happen at ever more dangerous levels?

Andrew Marrs series is really interesting.

I just watched Alistair Cooke's programme on the Depression in America (and elsewhere incidentally), as well as the programme following about people's experiences during the Depression, shown on BBC4. (So much more intelligent and insightful than the 'bells and whistles' programmes aired these days.)

Cooke's programme was made in 1973, so it didn't draw parallels with today's economic climate. However, the parallels were there to be seen in the excesses and vacuous stupidity of the population at large before the Depression, the recklessness and greed of the unregulated financial situations, and the shallow, self-serving and uncaring politicians.

It was very frightening and sobering seeing what a 'boom' can lead to. The present 'boom', particularly in the UK and US, is built on a pack of cards, and the 'government' is desperately trying to prop up it up, when the answer is – or shortly will be – creating jobs so that the population can survive. What is all this talk of encouraging more lending to individuals, which will only end in an even bigger crash? It is businesses, which create employment, that should be propped up, not idiots who have over-extended themselves.

Another thing that struck me watching these two programmes (as well as Stephen Fry's America) is just how vast the US is and what a huge industrial base it still has. It could be galvanised into supporting itself entirely if necessary, something that would not be possible in Britain, where industry and manufacturing – which Britain used to be so good at – has been destroyed.

Even with its huge industrial base, the US and Britain only came out of the Depression just before the Second World War, when there was a 'need' for a massive production of military equipment. How on earth is this country going to survive in what may end up as depression?

neverdespairgirl

Kez100 wrote: »

I also read somewhere that the Wall Street Crash started with too much credit.I couldn't believe it - credit, in the early 1900's? Yes, money lent to buy new Ford cars to people who couldn't repay!
.

I thought the Wall Street Crash was largely caused by gearing - people borrowing to bet on shares, and then getting margin calls when they fell?

Actually, I suppose the bubble was caused by that, rather than the Crash.

neverdespairgirl

The whole series was brilliant.

dervish

Pobby wrote: »

It was about the Thatcher years. Managing to keep my dinner down every time I heard Thatch open her gob,.

pathetic :rolleyes:


and cheap.

StevieJ

Sapphire wrote: »

I fear we will never learn the lesson – human greed and short-sightedness always takes over. Today, people are far more indebted than they were in Margaret Thatcher's time – and have much higher expectations about what they 'deserve'. Most younger people have never experienced real hardship (although they think they are doing so), whereas many of those who were in heavy debt in the early 80s had lived through quite hard times (by comparison) in their childhoods in the 50s and 60s.

I am not sure this make any sense.