Overpaid Council Tax Benefit.

TwoBob_3

I use to be a senior manager in council tax.

The council will want to class it as fraud because they earn money this way. By classing it as fraud they get 80% of the overpayment by way of "subsidy" from the government. The council can then make you repay the overpayment as well. Therefore if you overpay by £900 and then pay it back then they are £720 up. They will not want to assess the overpayment as "claimant error" because they will only get 25% subsidy.

You are going to struggle to prove that it wasn't deliberate. I suggest you try to get together some supporting evidence from somewhere.

By the way, there is no way they will accept a repayment plan of £2-3 per week. Expect to have to pay it back quickly or you will end up being summonsed for non payment and end up paying even more.

superscotsman

Well done, TwoBob

I wondered what they were up to.

What the hell has this country come to?

gobbyash

TwoBob

In my case, I will have repaid the oustanding amount before the case goes to court. The only reason they are taking it to court is because I refused to pay an additional fine.

For me, it makes sense to now pay the fine before it goes to court. If I seek the services of a lawyer, it will cost more than the fine.

The problem I have got is knowing who to pay the fine to. Do I make a cheque out to the council or do I make the additional payment onto my council tax account??

What would happen if I went to court and the judge said something like, 'How much does the defendant owe'.

'Nothing, your honour, it's been repaid'.

'So why are you here'

'Dunno, the council want to class it as fraud because if they do, they get 80% of the overpayment by way of "subsidy" from the government. If it is classed as a "claimant error" they will only get 25% subsidy.'

'This is stupidity, case dismissed'


Any advice greatly appreciated.

TwoBob_3

Gobbyash,

The council also receive additional subsidy for taking positive action against "fraudsters". This is (the last I heard):

£1,200 for every Formal Caution given and accepted.
£1,200 for every Administrative Penalty given and accepted.
£1,200 for issuing a summons, plus an additional £2,000 for a successful prosecution. A successful prosecution is defined as any case where the defendant has been found guilty regardless of the sentence imposed.

The government deliberately provide councils with a financial insentive because they are trying to clamp down on fraud. The fact that the council are only doing it for the money will not help your case in court, which will be decided on the evidence. Paying the overpayment before the court case won't help either I'm afraid.

I'm not going to give you an opinion on your chances of winning the cases because it really does depend on the evidence they have and any you can provide - none of which I am privy to. The court may decide it is claimant error and not fraud but then again they may decide you deliberately failed to notify, which is fraud. All I can say is that it is only a £900 overpayment so if you are found guilty I doubt you will be punished too harshly. It is up to you whether you want the stress, and the risk of a criminal record, of trying to fight it.

If you change your mind about taking the Admin penalty then give them a call and see what they say. Just tell them you can't face court and you have changed your mind.

Sorry, I can't give you a more positive answer but it is better to know the facts when making your decision.

TwoBob

gobbyash

TwoBob - you have private message.

superbigal36

Thanks for all the interesting reading.
I decided against attending the "Interview under caution" and advised the officer by telephone. I then sent a long letter (Which has been received) basically addressing the issue and blaming the Council for losing correspondence. I have received both Council Tax Bills for 2004/2005 & 2005/2006 and paid them in full. It has all gone very quiet. Is it possible they just have put the file away ? I would have at least expected a reply to my letter but then again it is the Council and nothing should suprise me.

Anthillmob

dont hold your breath. they may just have a backlog of work and wont deal with your letter just yet. which is unfortunate.

my local council (not the one i workfor) their benefit dept was 6 MONTHS behind on all correspondance last year. thats taking the michael believe me.

gobbyash

gobbyash wrote:

I've encountered this problem too.

Was made redundant, claimed job seekers, went self-employed, signed off from job centre - 5 months later, forgot to advise Council till letter came through the door claiming possible fraud.

I've been for the taped interview where I agreed to repay the o/s amount (about £220 for 2 months) over the remaining DD for this year and explained it was an oversight (been busy setting up a new business from scratch) plus when I signed off with JC I asked 'if that was everything sorted' and they said 'yes'.

I was requested to attend a second interview where I was told that if I paid a 30% fine (about £65), the matter would be closed. I refused on the grounds that it was an oversite and that I had agreed to repay the o/s money but thought the fine was harsh as I had not had any reminder. If I was trying to comit fraud, why would I have signed off from jobseekers? I've paid by council tax for over 10 years via DD and the direct DD was still open.

Anyway, I've got an appointment with the courts in January. I'm not even sure whether I'm going to court because of my refusal to pay the fine or for the oversight. Never been in trouble with the law, not even a speeding fine and feel rather indignant over the way this has been dealt with.

However, after discussing it with the better half, we have agreed it makes sense to pay the fine and draw a line underneath it, but every time I ring the council, I get put through to a different dept, leave messages for people to ring me back, which they never do and am wondering how to sort it out before it goes to court (or am I too late??)

Any advise will be much appreciated.

As an update, after several unsuccessful phone calls, I spoke to the right person and told him that I was prepared to pay the fine but would be writing to accept that I should have informed the council in a timely manner.

I was advised that it was now too late to pay the fine as the process had moved forward and a court date had been set.

I explained that I did not want to go to court and that it had caused an enormous amount of stress and upset over the Christmas period.

I was offered an appointment at the local customer services centre where I would sign a caution which would be 'sent to the police station' and held on my records for 5 years.

I said I would be happy to do this as long as the form I sign states that I did not contact the council in a timely manner as opposed to the court appearance for fraud.

The official has agreed to this and when I asked about how much the fine would be, I was told that there would not be one. The court will be made aware of the situation after I have signed the forms, however it wouldn't surprise me if the paperwork is not completed in time and I am held in contempt of court or something like that.

I must say, this has been a farce from start to finish and no doubt there will be a few more turns before it is finally resolved.

Regards

gobbyash

PS Thanks to TwoBob for providing valuable advice and help via the PM service