Query on land ownership

Pontebantam

Good morning all,

I'll try to keep the post as concise and factual as possible.

Grandfather has received a letter from Bradford Council 'Department of Regeneration':

According to council records, the bottom 2.5m strip of land is owned by the council who are prepared to sell this to my grandfather. Currently the land is occupied by a Church with the surrounding grassed area. 25 years ago the church erected a fence and due to the shape of the land they 'gave' my grandfather the 2.5m strip as they needed to keep the fence straight.

So the question now is, do we have to but that piece of land or can it be considered his land due to the passage of time ? I've read somewhere about new laws that were passed in 2003 but if anyone can offer me advice i'd be grateful. We can prove when the land was given as it is recorded by the church as to when the fence was erected.

Finally, should he have to buy the land, does anyone know approximate prices per m2 for land with and without planning permission (residential area in bradford) ? I've worked out area under issue is 10m x 2.5m.

We have to respond by 14th November if he wishes to purchase or they will dispose "by an alternative method".

Thankyou in advance,

Vinny

Debt_Free_Chick

Pontebantam wrote: »

We can prove when the land was given as it is recorded by the church as to when the fence was erected.

So .... hasn't this land been registered as part of your GF's plot?

Do you have the title deeds? Does the plan of the property show that your GF's plot includes this land?

Premier_2

Of course it's not his - it belongs to the legal owner (unless you have documentary evidence of a legal transfer - and the fact you are suggesting he now might have to purchase this land means I doubt you have any legal proof of ownership) A fence does not constitute a legal boundary - it can be placed anywhere on an owners land.

The owner can try and sell the land for whatever price they want. Your grandfather needs to decide what it's worth to him in deciding whether or not to purchase it at the stated price. What would be the effect is someone else purchased it instead, perhaps a fellow neighbour, who may decide to use it for whatever lawful purpose they decide?

poppysarah

Has he mown the area for the last 25 years? It could be his for nowt.

Pontebantam

1: The contract was purely verbal over 20 years ago when the fence was erected. The land is adjacent to my GF's land.

2: The strip of land has a row of evergreen trees which were planted and have been maintained by my grandfather for the last 20 years. This row of trees follows the fence itself.

3: On the plans sent by the council, we can see his land and then they have marked off in black the section they believe is owned by them. If they were to take this back they would need to remove the line of trees, part of a shed and several strawberry plants !

The key issue for me is that, depending on the cost, yes he could buy it from them but as an 85 year old gent who still doesn't speak fantastic english (came over from Italy after the war) he's upset by this and I don't want him being taken advantage of. Even more annoying when you consider that he has maintained this land for the last 20 years!

Finally - looking on the Land Registry website, putting in my GF's address details brings up the properties on his street however his shows up as 'no information available' so I have sent a SIM form to Nottingham requesting information.

Vinny

stebiz

Pontebantam wrote: »

1: The contract was purely verbal over 20 years ago when the fence was erected. The land is adjacent to my GF's land.

2: The strip of land has a row of evergreen trees which were planted and have been maintained by my grandfather for the last 20 years. This row of trees follows the fence itself.

3: On the plans sent by the council, we can see his land and then they have marked off in black the section they believe is owned by them. If they were to take this back they would need to remove the line of trees, part of a shed and several strawberry plants !

The key issue for me is that, depending on the cost, yes he could buy it from them but as an 85 year old gent who still doesn't speak fantastic english (came over from Italy after the war) he's upset by this and I don't want him being taken advantage of. Even more annoying when you consider that he has maintained this land for the last 20 years!

Finally - looking on the Land registry website, putting in my GF's address details brings up the properties on his street however his shows up as 'no information available' so I have send a SIM form to Nottingham requesting information.

Vinny

I would say it is your grandfathers, purely for the reason you first mentioned. I would write to the council and inform them. I can't see them wishing to take it any further with a 'sitting tenant'. Even if they do the land is of little use to anybody else - I assume? It is so small. In which case he may only have to pay a very small fee. I've seen bigger plots in similar situations go around here for only a couple of thousand pounds. Good Luck.

Stebiz

poppysarah

There's rules on taking over land if you've maintained it for so many years - it's best to get a free half hour with a solicitor to double check the best way of ensuring it happens smoothly though.

Debt_Free_Chick

I wonder if it could be argued that the Church allowed GF to use part of their land, but didn't actually give it to him?

If that's the case and your GF has planted/used the land, then I doubt the owner has any obligation to compensate him for the loss of plants, shed etc.

Curious though ..... how does the Council now own this land, if it belongs/belonged to the Church? Is the letter you have from the Parochial Church Council or from the local district/borough council?

Pontebantam

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

I wonder if it could be argued that the Church allowed GF to use part of their land, but didn't actually give it to him?

If that's the case and your GF has planted/used the land, then I doubt the owner has any obligation to compensate him for the loss of plants, shed etc.

Curious though ..... how does the Council now own this land, if it belongs/belonged to the Church? Is the letter you have from the Parochial Church Council or from the local district/borough council?

From the Council

"As you may be aware part of the rear section of your house garden is in council ownership. This was purchased for a scheme which did not proceed and therefore we are able to dispose of it to you at this time. In a ddition to the purchase price you will be required to pay a contribution towards the Council's legal and surveyors costs."

We don't know if the people who erected the fence on behalf of the Church actually told them what they had done, so the Church may not have made a note and then lost in the mists of time until the council brought it up now.

Debt_Free_Chick

It would seem as though your GF has no evidence that he owns it - and in reality, it looks as though he doesn't own it.

As to value, simply ask a couple of local estate agents for a view, if GF really wants to buy/keep it.

silvercar

I would have thought that, having taken possession of it for more than 12 years with no objection it has become yours. From memory something more than just squaters rights (which may also apply).