need legal advice

wendi1970

Hi all,
I have a mark 3 mondeo it went into the garage on monday because they was blue smoke coming from the exhaust, they hadn't had a look at it properly but said they had to strip it down the following day because they thought it could be the inlet manifold, the following day we phoned them and they said they where sure but we would have to wait until wednesday, on wednesday I went down, he told me he had ordered a new manifold and put it on but was now waiting for a pipe what was missing from the box,I asked him if it was definatly that and he said yes so I asked him how much and he said "well the part was £190, then there's the pipe and labour" thursday we
phoned (again) it was still smoking so they thought the baffles in the exhaust where soaked so we would have to wait till today, well today has come they have drilled 2 holes in the exhaust and drained off the oil (so to speak) and guess what the car is still smoking.
My problem is do I have to pay for this work what has already been done but not worked and he didn't get my permission to do so in the first place,it's took 5 days to do 4 hours work on it and now they say it could be the !!!!ton rings...:mad:
What can I do help

harveybobbles

Is it petrol or deisel?

If it's deisel then it could be turbo failure, as this is quite common on them. Plus it would explain the blue smoke and the exhaust being full of oil.

Apart from the heat exchange around the EGR valve which cracks (Causing the exhuast to fill with water) I can't say we've done anything else to Mondeo's.

DMF's aside...

Conor_3

Lets put it this way, I hope it's a diesel because if it's a petrol, the OP is looking at a recon engine.

The problem with repairing cars is that they're pretty complex and several causes can produce the same fault. It is not reasonable for them to expect to know that the baffles are soaked with oil just because the exhaust has blue smoke coming out. It's perfectly normal for blue smokey exhaust output not to result in soaked baffles. It all depends on how bad it has been, how long it has been doing it for and what the original cause of the blue smoke was.

And just draining the oil off won't immediately stop the smoking. The fibres in the silencers as well as all the insides of the tubing in the exhaust will be coated in oil and it'll take time for this to burn off.

It's not taken 5 days to do 4hrs work - they've been waiting for parts which is beyond their control for 2 days. You took your car in adhoc to a garage that'll already have been fully booked for the week so it gets fitted in as and when they have spare time.

They could have carried a lot more tests on it which would have definitely said whether or not the piston rings were shot but like most motorists, I doubt you'd be happy at a 2-3hr/£120-£150 bill for diagnostics just for the results to say there was nothing wrong, would you?

In the meantime, keep a WEEKLY check on the oil level and if it drops, go back to the garage because something else is still wrong.

If you're not happy with what to me seems a reasonable path to have taken, perhaps you should repair it yourself.

hewhoisnotintheknow

what conor says

Conor_3

It just gets my goat. People whinge that they don't think they've had a correct diagnosis or that the fault hasn't been cured but they don't want to pay for the time and equipment to do the diagnostics because they seem to think that they shouldn't pay for that for some reason and that if you present a vehicle with a set of symptoms, a garage should be magically able to say exactly what the fault is down to the exact component on a vehicle that has thousands of parts without doing any investigation whatsoever.

It makes me mad. They'd be absolutely horrified if a doctor decided on surgery on a patient without doing any diagnosis and tests whatsoever but decided that because the patient had a pain in their sides that it's a symptom of kidney failure so better whip it out yet this is exactly the mechanical equivalent of what they're expecting the garage to do.

To absolutely find the cause beyond doubt of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust, the only way to do it is to take the engine apart, taking off the cylinder head. That on a Mondeo is a 4hr job and involves the thick end of £150 in parts to put it back together unless you're going to skimp the job. Is the customer going to want to pay for that? No. So it doesn't get done, even though it's pretty vital. End result is that the mechanic goes for the obvious cause or what he thinks it is from experience and the limited fault finding he's able to do, basically hoping that's the source.

So my answer to them all is the same now. Do it themselves. Oh wait, they can't because they know nothing about vehicle mechanics or electronics which is why they took it to a garage....

big_gay_kirk

you asked them to stop it smoking.. thats what they're doing....

sturll

Conor wrote: »

It just gets my goat. People whinge that they don't think they've had a correct diagnosis or that the fault hasn't been cured but they don't want to pay for the time and equipment to do the diagnostics because they seem to think that they shouldn't pay for that for some reason and that if you present a vehicle with a set of symptoms, a garage should be magically able to say exactly what the fault is down to the exact component on a vehicle that has thousands of parts without doing any investigation whatsoever.

It makes me mad. They'd be absolutely horrified if a doctor decided on surgery on a patient without doing any diagnosis and tests whatsoever but decided that because the patient had a pain in their sides that it's a symptom of kidney failure so better whip it out yet this is exactly the mechanical equivalent of what they're expecting the garage to do.

To absolutely find the cause beyond doubt of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust, the only way to do it is to take the engine apart, taking off the cylinder head. That on a Mondeo is a 4hr job and involves the thick end of £150 in parts to put it back together unless you're going to skimp the job. Is the customer going to want to pay for that? No. So it doesn't get done, even though it's pretty vital. End result is that the mechanic goes for the obvious cause or what he thinks it is from experience and the limited fault finding he's able to do, basically hoping that's the source.

So my answer to them all is the same now. Do it themselves. Oh wait, they can't because they know nothing about vehicle mechanics or electronics which is why they took it to a garage....

I think what you say only addresses part of the problem. Whilst what you say may be true in practice it is not.
Mechanics are over paid grease monkeys that charge stupid amounts of money for doing minimal work most of the time. Like £190 for the inlet pipe, so not only do the garage know the owner of the car is distressed because their car is knackered, but they continue to take advantage of his need for his vehicle by charging a stupidly overpriced amount for a pipe that costs approx 600% less.
They tell him that it will be done tomorrow and that its 'definitely' this fault - then it turns out its not. Should the mechanic not have said "i cant be 100% but am pretty sure"
The fact is mechanics are nothing other than rip off merchants who prey on the misfortune of others and exploit the fact a car to most is a necessity and milk it for as much money as they can possibly get. In reality all they are is usually high school drop outs or undereducated commoners that charge a high price simply because they can.

Its no wonder that after Estate Agents mechanics are the most hated 'profession' (if indeed you can call them that) in the UK.

big_gay_kirk

not all mechanics are rip off merchants.. ma and my dad certainly aren't.. but we generally deal with older cars, the ones that you can actually fix..... although may i say that most mechanics are what we would have called fitters in days gone by.... a fitter puts on a new alternator.. a mechanic strips the old one, and gets it working again....

big_gay_kirk

oh yes.... and the only "diagnostics" we use are ears, nose and eyes.. and brain of course....

sturll

big_gay_kirk wrote: »

not all mechanics are rip off merchants.. ma and my dad certainly aren't.. but we generally deal with older cars, the ones that you can actually fix..... although may i say that most mechanics are what we would have called fitters in days gone by.... a fitter puts on a new alternator.. a mechanic strips the old one, and gets it working again....

No you're absolutely right they aren't. It was wrong for me to suggest they all are. I apologise. The problem is there are so many that are it makes it difficult to distinguish or indeed find the genuine ones.

The_Economist

[quote=Conor;154777
To absolutely find the cause beyond doubt of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust, the only way to do it is to take the engine apart, taking off the cylinder head.[/quote]

If you are refering to the piston rings then they should be able to do a compression test. This doesn't require a complete strip down of the engine.