Ok, do you want house prices to go up or down ?

Conrad

Assuming Barristers and other professionals earn above avearge is a misnomer.

Ever since becomming a mortgage broker I've recognised offical earnings statistics are highly misleading.

The best way I can explain this is with some real word examples;

* My Brother is an employed HGV driver and a self employed gardener. His official earnings on Govt stats would register about £25000, yet his take home pay is about £800 per week, which if you gross up with normal employees higher rate Tax equates to £65000 or so.

* Electrician client takes home around £500 per week employed, but does on the side work for another £300 per week. Official stats have his earnings around £35000, but he is on the equivolent gross income of over £70,000 (as only taxed at basic rate)

* Co Director typically pay thier spouse a proportion of income (40% is the figure I often see), so Govt stats would have his average earnings pegged far less than the reality

* Bloke who owns local caravan park shows income of about £20k, but earns nearer £100k in reality

* Dry cleaner biz owner declaring £25k but works weekends and some evenings as black cabbie earning over £700 per week all cash after petrol

* Nigerian Nurse on nearly £60k made up of agency work. Husband does the same, so an average non professional couple new to the UK are earning £120k pa. This example is always disputed, but I promise it's true


The usual response I get to these examples is that are just rare extremes, but this is absolutely not the case. I would say it's mainstream.

Professionals have this notion they are top 10% earners, but it's a total fantasy. In fact I would say they are average earners at best.

lostinrates

Conrad wrote: »

Assuming Barristers and other professionals earn above avearge is a misnomer.

Ever since becomming a mortgage broker I've recognised offical earnings statistics are highly misleading.

The best way I can explain this is with some real word examples;

* My Brother is an employed HGV driver and a self employed gardener. His official earnings on Govt stats would register about £25000, yet his take home pay is about £800 per week, which if you gross up with normal employees higher rate Tax equates to £65000 or so.

* Electrician client takes home around £500 per week employed, but does on the side work for another £300 per week. Official stats have his earnings around £35000, but he is on the equivolent gross income of over £70,000 (as only taxed at basic rate)

* Co Director typically pay thier spouse a proportion of income (40% is the figure I often see), so Govt stats would have his average earnings pegged far less than the reality

* Bloke who owns local caravan park shows income of about £20k, but earns nearer £100k in reality

* Dry cleaner biz owner declaring £25k but works weekends and some evenings as black cabbie earning over £700 per week all cash after petrol

* Nigerian Nurse on nearly £60k made up of agency work. Husband does the same, so an average non professional couple new to the UK are earning £120k pa. This example is always disputed, but I promise it's true


The usual response I get to these examples is that are just rare extremes, but this is absolutely not the case. I would say it's mainstream.

Professionals have this notion they are top 10% earners, but it's a total fantasy. In fact I would say they are average earners at best.

Actually, I can accept all of that. I think its people other than the professional who thinks they (the professionals) are top earners now.;)

Ther are loads of these sorts of myths, I agree. Solicitors in DH's field often earn more than barristers do(the decider for him in choosing to become a solicor rather than barrister but its funny how many people asume he 'left law training' before becoming a barrister, rather than continuing on for the 'higher' qualification, lol.

Cleaver

I would like them to go down

skap7309 wrote: »

Excellent post and fully supported on this one, i put it down to figures like this.

Realy - Despite having an excellent job and wage (over double average) house prices are still silly and one should not have to work 7 days a week for sub-standard housing as it is overpriced....:rolleyes:
It has a long way to fall and mark my words it will - ALL the right (or wrong) factors suggest this. I bet my house on it

In answer to the general question posted by the OP:

Two people are buying a house that earn the average UK wage (what, about 25k?). So they have 50k a year between them. They save a 10% deposit, buy an average type house for about £150k. Their 25 year mortgage is about £850 a month, which is about 20% of their gross monthly pay. This seams a reasonable situation, so with house price averages currently at £165k (or whatever they are this week) I would like to see them drop another 10% or so, then rise nicely in line with inflation year on year.

Having said this, I think we've got about another 25% - 30% to drop.

Not really bothered either way really, and my utopian situation of rising with inflation won't happen. It's all cyclical and we'll be having the same discussion in ten or twenty years after various other booms and busts.

Skap - just out of interest you earn over 50k but feel you can't buy a house. Is this because you live in a very expensive area or because you want a bigger / posher than average house?

slipthru

I would like them to go up

Cleaver wrote: »

In answer to the general question posted by the OP:

Two people are buying a house that earn the average UK wage (what, about 25k?). So they have 50k a year between them. They save a 10% deposit, buy an average type house for about £150k. Their 25 year mortgage is about £850 a month, which is about 20% of their gross monthly pay. This seams a reasonable situation, so with house price averages currently at £165k (or whatever they are this week) I would like to see them drop another 10% or so, then rise nicely in line with inflation year on year.

Having said this, I think we've got about another 25% - 30% to drop.

Not really bothered either way really, and my utopian situation of rising with inflation won't happen. It's all cyclical and we'll be having the same discussion in ten or twenty years after various other booms and busts.

Skap - just out of interest you earn over 50k but feel you can't buy a house. Is this because you live in a very expensive area or because you want a bigger / posher than average house?

One question, what if one of them takes say five years or so out, to look after any little people that arrive, is that still affordable?

lostinrates

What colour shall I go to now red has been used? (I o love your responses Moggylover, you are always polite )

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinrates
The markets!:rolleyes: In all seriousness, training for some jobs is more expensive, apptitude is not omnipresent and nither is skill.

Okay - but my question is - if we all train for "better" and "better paid" jobs, who does the other less skilled, but often more essential jobs? When I lecture (which I still do occasionally upon invitation:o ) I hold a probably unpopular view that not evryone is capable of doing everything, even with great training. I do not believe this to be a class thing, a rich/poor thing or in many cases an intelligenc thing. Neither do I value a person as a person by their job or income.

What is your subject?:)

I always like to ask students "who EARNS his retirement the most, the guy/gal who works a 40 hour week doing something they hate in order to earn a bare living, or the one who does 60 hours in a job they enjoy, or the guy who works 85 hours a week in a job he doesn't particulary like but gets mega-dosh for doing it? Who actually works hardest, the guy who hates his job, or the one who gets job satisfaction?" I get some amazingly lucid answers from some of the younger ones: who, wanting to live in a greener society, also seem to realise that we need to approach it more fairly in terms of earnings! Maybe they earn ifferent things, not all financial. I think that one works not only for oneself but for the community one lives in. e.g. DH and I both us to work a musicians. Our financial earnings were ..well, lets say variable but we earned respect from our peers, payment in kind by going to lots of events we might not have otherwise, and our skill, while not contibuting to peoples necessity like a nurse or inded a banker, did contribute to the delight of some people. I think its just that we earned less financially oing that than, say, someone doing what DH does now, he has gained financially, works a few more hours, has less respect, but has had more impact on the actual lives of people.

Who should and shouldn't buy? How much the iniviual can afford. We don't fel we can safely afford what we want, so we haven't bought, when we were both self employed in lower income jobs, and now that I don't work and he's moved sector.

I see one of the basic "rights" of life as being a roof over ones head, either because ones family are able to provide it during childhood, or because you can afford to rent it or buy it in adulthood because you are working.

I tend to agree with you-accepting we are attempting to be a civilised country anyway - but partly because its cold outside tonight. I don't think right to shelter has to denote any ownership, or even in some cases security of tenure. Harsh I accept, but those to whom I feel that to be a very small minority(extremely violent criminals, for example)

How we expect, as a nation, to encourage people to work when they will still not be able to afford a "decent" home in line with their familial needs I do not know.
i don't think ownership of a home has to be the only encouragemnt, enhanced quality of life through work yes, personal gain, indeed, and of course, the unquanitfyable gain of being proud of oneself an being valued by the community in which you live.

Now, it may be that you are personally asking for too much - I do not know your circumstances, but those of us that own nice homes in older age did not necessarily start out with such nice homes first, and I am afraid to say that the current generation generally want too much at one go and would not be seen dead with someone else's cast-off furniture or curtains as my own generation (even in fairly well paid jobs) often did!

LOL, well, I do have furniture and I don't think anyof it is new. I accept that a lot of the 'current generation want to much too soon' but I am not in debt, have savings, substantial ones. DH has inerited.....furniture which is in storage, pretty worthless apart from emotionally and is not likely to inherit anything from surving arnt (new marriage) likewise, I don't expect to inherit substantially, (which I presume you include under starting out) fior various reasons (I hope my parents spend anything they have, they've worked hard and deserve it). As for starting out, DH was born in the house his mother first bought, and that was sold after her death, my paternal family only moved for work, but it was accepted as normal that one built houses for second sons who wouldn't inherit on the farm, and extended your house if it wer too small. A huge number of our direct families have never moved to climb a ladder.
What I do see as wrong, is that often people in privately rented accommodation are paying as much to rent as they would to pay a mortgage, and are (in fact) paying a mortgage for someone else to get the benefit of because they are not seen as mortgageable themselves! That is what is basically wrong with the current BTL situation, and until that is addressed (by rent control or more state owned housing for those on low incomes) then we are not going to make any lasting impression on the housing market just by getting lower prices for a couple of years!
I do not like a lot about English tenancies. An awful lot, and I am neither pro nor against BTL, I think landlords, good landlords, have a valuable role to play in housing. BUT it is fair to say that they at times take a huge risk in letting property. I'm sur you and I have been right here before??

If we had a second property it woul be neither holiday home, nor home. It woul be accomodation to let DH earn, we'd only do it if it wer cheaper than renting. I know this is a popular view, but its not one I subscribe to myself. Obvously:) I'd rather we capped oversea investment in uk residential property first.

I too would wish to see overseas investment in residential property stopped: except where the person buying was able to show a need for that property for their own use for at least 75% of the year!

A pied-a-terre should not be a necessity in this life, work should be available in the areas people live in and "dormitory" systems should be frowned upon greatly: although I admit that a sneaking wish of mine is to be able to live here where I am, and have somewhere back home so that I could spend more time with my other family.:o

Bit this is so prsriptive! My education and likely future employment is centred in rural locations DH can ONLY work in his field in London in this country. Should we divorce to suit such a policy when its likely we'll afford it ? I agree a pied a terre (I use the term very tongue in cheek) should not be necessary for everyone. And I never understand why business don't move north wher their commercial property, and the reidential property for employers, would be cheaper.



I agree with you about tax credits. Totally.

I know it is often "difficult" for small companies to pay very much on starting up! What annoys me is the number of very much better off companies where the staff are still paid a pittance so that their boss (who forgets that their work contributes to his living) can have a bigger house, fancier car or a boat for weekends! There is no such thing as a "self-made" millionaire: one cannot earn and amass that sort of money on ones own work and time only - and if you are receiving that kind of money and exploiting just one person on an unlivable wage then I personally think you should be shot:D As to the big corporations that pay poorly..............well, I shall leave you to imagine for yourselves what I think of them!
My father is not a millionaire, I don't think, but he is self made. He says to me you become rich with what you spend not with what you earn. I think earning lots probably helps.:D

hethmar

I would like them to go up

ad9898 wrote: »

Well their are 4 of you at the minute, shame on you, you need to be put in the stocks and flogged:D, I won't count DD, as he was takin the mick I think, .

Well, lets be honest, you knew the results before you even set up the Poll. If you had been taking bets on the results Id have piled in a good bit of money :j

lotto-dreamer

[quote=lostinrates;15404641]What colour shall I go to now red has been used? (I o love your responses Moggylover, you are always polite )



I agree with you about tax credits. Totally.[/quote]

So do I. I get very worked up about tax credits. :mad: What an appalling system -

1) a lot of people are possibly more in debt because of tax credits -since it was often taken into account when applying for loans, mortgages etc (surprise, surprise) Then the IR tries to claw "overpayments" back because of the way it is retrospectively worked out (crazy) so that extra income disappears.

2) It also makes people dependent on the state :mad: who shouldn't be

The correct and much fairer system would be to tax people on a sliding scale according to their income.

I have NEVER understood the reason for the Tax Credits system.

rant over

Mozette

I would like them to go down

Go down so that normal people can afford a HOME again

wymondham

I would like them to go down

Down to reasonable levels again. About £80k for a 3 bed semi should be fine!

North_Sea_Bubble

I would like them to go down

darktrader wrote: »

I voted "Down."

I own my property - just the one - with no mortgage or other debts and I purchased it ten years ago.

Prices going up or down have no direct affect on me whatsoever but the price (to use the word "value" is a misnomer) increase bubble, boom then bust, BTL and TV Property !!!!!! explosion has had a huge detrimental affect on our Society and Economy. Only a massive drop/collapse of Property prices will be sufficient to imprint on the Nations psyche and prevent a repeat of the folly for at least a Generation.

I will be interested in what future Governments do to curb BTL as this, as much as anything else has skewed the Market. Prices have not risen due to supply and demand operating in a "normal" Market. They have risen due to a minority purchasing too many properties for themselves. They are not wrong to do this given the inducements, easy debt and plethora of "experts" extolling the virtues of "Property Portfolios." But this gross distortion of the Market must be prevented from happening again.

Spot on. Couldn't have expresed my opinion any better myself.