who is responsible?

johngreer

we bought our house in nov 2007 we only had a valuation survey completed on the one bed bothy cottage by colleys.
we got it back and it said everything was ok so we proceeded and moved in .
in august i almost went through the bedroom floor at the front of the property when i pulled back the carpet i was horrified to discover the floorboards were rotten so i called 3 firms in to get a price
all 3 came up with result that the walls were saturated through rising damp and also in the hallway and front lounge along with the floorboards and joists being rotten
we have had to spend nearly 4k on getting this work done but tescos say we cannot calim for it and colleys are disputing there valuation survey what can we do?

ormus

need more info really. how old is the cottage? who are colleys?
whats tesco got to do with it?

generally a valuation is just a subjective value of the property at that time. usually to get a mortgage.
it would be very hard to prove the value was wrong, 12 months ago. esp if the house is unusual. ie not a normal estate house. remember location has a huge effect on the value.
anyone buying a house with no knowledge (of house construction) really should get a survey done. and esp when buying an unusual house. (ie an old cottage).

fatnbald

The terminology of the various surveys around give a hint as to the level of "survey" you get, a "valuation survey" I would guess is exactly what it says - a quick look to make sure it is worth at least the mortgage value. This does not necessarily mean the fabric of the property will even be looked at, many valuatuion surveys are done by not even entering the property involved but from the street.

Contact the valuation people by all means but I think you will find they cover their backs comprehensively, I would be more inclined to look at your buidling insurance and see what cover they can give you

td

We had a similar thing with a house we bought in the past but we had had a structural survey done and the surveyors were responsible and rectified the problem I'm not sure how it differs to a valuation but have you got legal cover on car or house insurance - maybe it would be worth a call to them to see what your rights are.

td

Cazza

OP, there are three different levels of survey you can arrange when you purchase a property using a mortgage. I'm assuming, you used Tesco as the mortgage broker? (Ormus - Colleys are the surveyors, they're a very large national firm, owned by HBOS).

OP, if you only had the basic mortgage valuation report done, I'm afraid you don't have a leg to stand on, the survey you paid for was a survey the mortgage company instructed, in order for them to decide if the property was good security for the mortgage. It is their survey report, not yours. You just had to pay for it and they happened to be nice and give you a copy. You did not have a contract with the surveyors, the lender did, therefore they have no responsibility or obligation to you. That's not the way they make it sound, but it's the way it is I'm afraid.

If you had either of the more detailied surveys dome, the homebuyers report or a full structural survey, then they do have an obligation and this is where you can start a fight, but from what you've said already, I don't feel this is the case.

Ultimately, the mortgage valuation is exactly that. The surveyor will not move furniture or floor coverings and will not usually look in any loft spaces. It is purely a visual inspection. I think you may have sadly found out the hard way why it is important to have a more detailed survey done on an older property.

27col

I won't bother to add much more, as Cazza has said almost every thing that I was going to say, word for word. All the survey was doing was reassuring the lender that the building was worth what they lent you on it and that they would be sure of getting their money back in the case of a default.

johngreer

thanks for the response have to say i thought i would have had something to cheer me up about but it does not seem the case. the thing is had we known all of this it would have affected our price offered so do you think i should try for legal help

Airwolf1

This is why I always recommend a Homebuyers report, or a Full Building Survey if you think something looks iffy yourself. Here is what our website says about A mortgage Valuation Report:-

The primary purpose of a Mortgage Valuation Report is to provide an opinion to a Financial Lending Institution as to whether the property is suitable security for a loan. It is NOT and must not be treated or relied upon as a detailed report or survey on the existing or future condition of the property.
Major defects which are visible and apparent at the time of the inspection will be reported for the purpose of arriving at a valuation, the concealed areas will be assumed to have no significant defects. Items which do not seriously affect the value or the security of the property are not normally included in a Report of this type. The Valuer may well take such defects into account when arriving at the value but reference to these would only be given in a fuller Survey and Report.
It must be repeated that this is the most limited form of inspection and therefore it is recommended that a more comprehensive survey be instructed.

Airwolf1

I don't think you would have a lg to stand on in relation to trying for legal help. You could try appealing (sp) against Tesco's decision if you have had been refused a claim on the house insurance, but even then, one would state in a report to the insurance company that this (the problem) would have happened over a period of time and therefore our recommendation is that this is not a valid claim.

Sorry if it sounds a tad harsh, but I've only given you my honest opinion based on what you've posted.

TomsMom

Johh, I don't know if this will cheer you up or prompt you to ask questions but here goes.

I used to work for the in-house valuation department of a major building society although it is almost 15 years since I left and things MAY have changed now.

We offered 3 levels of valuations/surveys (as now I believe).

(1) the low cost basic Valuation which told the lender if the value of the house would cover the loan. A copy was sent to the applicant and it would point out any obvious problems and where appropriate recommend timber/damp reports, electrician's report, mention any large trees close by which may possibly cause problems, any noticeable slipped slates, etc. Probably took about 30 minutes tops.

(2) FRICS Home Buyers Report & Valuation, a mid-price survey which went into more detail and was much more thorough. Surveyor would carry ladders and torch and do a "head and shoulders" inspection of the loft, get out his binoculars and take a better look at the roof from the outside, etc. This type of report took between 2-3 hours.

(3) Full structural survey - these were always referred to a surveyor on the panel, not undertaken in-house, as it required a surveyor with different qualifications and could take up to half a day and was a lot more expensive.

With both the Valuation and Home Buyers Report & Valuation the surveyor would always test with a damp meter and any high readings mentioned in the reports.

Our surveyors also had CPD - Continuing Professional Development - and attended the appropriate course(s) every year to ensure they were up to date with everything required to carry out their job competently.

They also had a "Duty of Care" to the applicant. This is where you might want to make some enquiries. If there was a chance that the rotting floorboards and damp would have been noticeable at the time of the inspection (and one assumes that may be the case and that he actually went inside the house) then isn't if feasible that the surveyor should have noticed it? OK, he wouldn't have pulled back any floor covering to check the floorboards (and it is probably in the Ts & Cs that they wont do that) but unless things have changed he would have used a damp meter on the walls. If there was rising damp then surely that would have registered on his damp meter and he should have mentioned it - i.e. his duty of care.

I'm assuming you have your buildings insurance with Tesco and they have refused to entertain a claim. Does your policy include legal assistance? If so make enquiries as to whether you can take this forward.

The surveyor who did your valuation was employed by Colleys. You have a copy of his report which stated that everything was OK. Is this surveyor's name on the report? Does he still work for Colleys? If so have you spoken to him personally to ascertain whether he made any notes about damp or rotten floorboards. This may be a question that can be asked by your solicitor or if you can get the legal assistance from Tesco. His notes will be on file with the report.

You should have a detailed report from the firm who did the remedial work which should itemise exactly what was wrong and what needed to be carried out. The firm should also be able to give an idea of how long it had taken for it to get to that stage and whether it would have been obvious at the time of the valuation.

As I said, things may have changed in the 15 years since I left my job. We live in a compensation culture and I would imagine there are clauses in the Ts and Cs completely covering the surveyor's back and you may get nowhere. On the other hand it may just be worth you making a few enquiries. If you have no redress then just take it on the chin and take it as a lesson learned - you will know next time to go for the more thorough survey, one where the surveyor puts the purchaser first rather than the lender. If there is a slim chance that the surveyor is accountable through Duty of Care then pursue it.

Edited to add that Airwolf added his reply whilst I was typing mine. He obviously has more up to date information than me although the website he is referring to says

Major defects which are visible and apparent at the time of the inspection will be reported for the purpose of arriving at a valuation

so if this is considered a major defect then it would seem it should have been mentioned in the report.

He also quotes

Items which do not seriously affect the value or the security of the property are not normally included in a Report of this type. The Valuer may well take such defects into account when arriving at the value but reference to these would only be given in a fuller Survey and Report.

It seems clarification is needed as to whether your damp/rotting floorboard problem is considered a major defect.

johngreer

think this might be the 2nd time this goes through but thank you everyone for all the replies and it has lifted me tomsmum and i will be seeing if i can get legal help from tescos also thanks airwolf
the people who did the work are also on our side as they say that will put in a report about the problem
again many thanks