Council tax band increased - should i bother appealling

lynnexxxo

Hi everyone,

I wonder if anyone can help me...

We bought a new house in september 07. It was originally a three bed semi but has been extended so it now had 5 bed an integral garage and a large conservatory. We paid 160k for it.

We have been quite happily going about our business when yesterday a bombshell landed on the doorstep (pause for dramatic effect). The valuation board (we're in scotland) has decided to increase our band from D to E.

First thing I done was Martins Nationwide calculator thing and it can back that our house would have been worth just under 50K in 1991, so armed with this info I got on the phone to the valuation board. He said that they are no longer taking into account some calculators online as that (and I quote here) 'Martin Lewis guy had everyone trying to reduce their band'. He was nice enough on the phone, telling me that I have the right to appeal but he said he knew my house personally and that two qualified people from his dept had agreed that my house should now be in Band E.

Its difficult to compare to my neighbours houses as ours is the only one thats been extended. In the wider area its still difficult to compare, as the houses with similar bedroom numbers are detached and often much swankier than ours.

Wonder if anyone had any pointers to put in my appeal, it does seem that the detached 4/5 bed houses nearby are also in band E so i suppose based on bedroom number maybe they are right.

I was thinking of going to the local library and looking at archive newspapers to get an idea of the sale prices back in 1991. Have tried nethouse prices but they only go back to 2000.

Should I just stump the extra cash (cheeky beggars have also backdated it for a year so they are going to take over £300 a month for the rest of my direct debit period!!) or is it worth trying to get the decision appealed?

Thanks in advance for any help!

amanda221

HI

We have just bought a house in March 08, which had an extension added in 03, our solicitor, as yours should have pointed out to you that on the sale of a property the council are entitled to up the band and this would supersede the value of 1991.

I would check through your papers from the solicitor to see if they made you aware of this if not you could have a case against them, and pursue this through the law society.

I dont think you will have much joy with the council, as this is normal practice on the sale of a house to review the band. Unfortunately, the council in our case have decided to band our extension seperate so now we have to pay for the main house and an extension which has only provided us with an extra kitchen bathroom and lounge area , no bedroom, but the council are classing it as a one bedroom flat, and have banded it as A, but on the other hand the council do not want to approve permission for the extension as i call it to be change to a 1 bedroom flat.

We are appealing as it at least gives us 6 months to a years delay, on paying the council tax.

If i were you i would check what your neighbours houses are and add one band, if that equates to E, i dont think you will get any better than that.
If it puts you in D, i would appeal, at least then it gives you some lee way with paying the extra

amanda221

HI again

I have just noticed that you say you have moved from D to E,sorry i missed that earlier

lincroft1710

Amanda - are you certain that an appeal gives you the right not to pay the extra amount.

vivatifosi

Hi lynne,

If you don't try you'll never know. I would focus on the difference between your house and the band Es, especially if they can be shown to sell for more, and yours has a smaller plot, is semi detached rather than detached, etc.

Whatever the guy on the phone said about knowing your house personally is irrelevant - because you should have a right to go to tribunal and if you do it will be your evidence against his rather than him making the decision. However, the other side of this is that puts the onus on you to put together a good case. Unfortunately a lot of people lose tribunals because they fail to provide sufficient research or understand how the system works.

You really do need to get evidence from 1991 (actually look at papers from the end of 1990 too, as they are the ones that will have got to completion at around the time the council tax was introduced). What else would I do? Get pictures of the houses (google earth is good for this because you can also see relative plot sizes), speak to agents to work out whether there is a difference in prices and get them to write a letter to that effect if necessary (especially if you can find one who remembers the market in 1991), try and find other houses that have been extended and their value compared to a house that was built that size and check out their bands. The difference between D and E is about 21%, so its definitely worth a shot.

Good luck!

hodgester

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Amanda - are you certain that an appeal gives you the right not to pay the extra amount.

I'm absolutely bl**dy certain it doesn't, you'll end up with a summons, worse and extra costs. Your appeal is also not with the council so ignore that advice.

Based on what you have said, I think you have two hopes and one of them is 'Bob'. You'd be better placed on getting on with life and taking the hit...

lincroft1710

hodgester - when I worked at VOA, we always told taxpayers to pay any increase asked as if there was band reduction, they would be refunded overpayment. Some things have changed, but I did not know if this was one of them.

lynnexxxo

Well just got letter in from the council tax folk today. I now owe them 172 from last year payable immediately and an extra £300 for this year. I have to pay the 172 in 28 days and they have increase in dd for the next three months to 257 per month. Great. They say if I appeal and am successful they will refund it but I must pay it for the time being.

Yes I was aware that theoterectally my house could be rebanded when I bought it but I had no idea that the council was so efficient. The idea that the planning dept managed to send the valuation folks the new plans for my house, combined with the fact they knew it had been sold and for how much !! That quite effiecient! Wish all the departments where so good.

My initial online research (haven't had a chance to go to library) based on the bands of other similar houses in my area suggests the council may be right, but i am still going to try the mircofiche newspapers at the library for sold prices in my area.

It may be a big waste of time but if a couple of hours at the library can save me 500 quid, then its worth it.

Paulgonnabedebtfree

lynnexxxo wrote: »

Well just got letter in from the council tax folk today. I now owe them 172 from last year payable immediately and an extra £300 for this year. I have to pay the 172 in 28 days and they have increase in dd for the next three months to 257 per month. Great. They say if I appeal and am successful they will refund it but I must pay it for the time being.

Yes I was aware that theoterectally my house could be rebanded when I bought it but I had no idea that the council was so efficient. The idea that the planning dept managed to send the valuation folks the new plans for my house, combined with the fact they knew it had been sold and for how much !! That quite effiecient! Wish all the departments where so good.

My initial online research (haven't had a chance to go to library) based on the bands of other similar houses in my area suggests the council may be right, but i am still going to try the mircofiche newspapers at the library for sold prices in my area.

It may be a big waste of time but if a couple of hours at the library can save me 500 quid, then its worth it.

Even if they are correct to reband your property, insisting on backdating is surely wrong? - unless you have obstructed them in any way. Even if they are entitled to backdate (which sounds totally out of order to me), I reckon you have reasonable grounds for getting the repayments spread over a much longer period. However, when dealing with council tax departments, a lot of us make the mistake of assuming that we are dealing with reasonable people. Remember though that if the direct debit might cause you a temporay financial problem, you can cancel it at your end. Having to pay a summons fee etc may end up cheaper than paying for bounced direct debits. There is always a chance that a court might see that their behaviour has been unreasonable (though don't hold your breath) but you may have to pay for the privelege. And they wonder why people sometimes go mental at them and why they need glass screens.

guppy

Paulgonnabedebtfree wrote: »

Even if they are correct to reband your property, insisting on backdating is surely wrong? - unless you have obstructed them in any way. Even if they are entitled to backdate (which sounds totally out of order to me), I reckon you have reasonable grounds for getting the repayments spread over a much longer period.

From what the OP has said, it sounds like the house has rebanded because of the new extension, not because of an error in the original banding. Where a house has been extended, and subsequently sold, the band is increased effective from the date of sale - in Scotland at least.

In England (not sure about Wales), this has been changed, so it wouldn't be backdated.

Where the band is wrong due to an error, it also wouldn't be backdated.

There's nothing to lose from appealing anyway

lynnexxxo

Yeah your right guppy, the rebanding has be backdated to the date we bought the house.

In some way its karma, thanks to this site we got our last house rebanded (down the way!) and recieved a lovely cheque for 700 odd pounds for the overpayments over 8 years.

Having done a bit more research I think that in comparison to other similar houses in our areathe new band is fair. What i don't agree with is the price they think the house was worth in 1991. It seems to me that based on actual for sale prices in 1991 the house is squarely in band d. The reason for this (i suspect) is that a large local steel works closed around this time and the area suffered what i suppose could be called a micro depression.

I am wondering what will hold more weight with an appeal, the comparison with nearest similar houses or that house prices in the local area were quite low at the time of banding (1991)?

You'll probably all find this a bit sad but I am actually enjoying researching this, going to library again later to look through their microfiche!