Fixed AER 15-20% and more in countries of emerging markets. How reliable?

panos_k75

i am interested to hear more about these "corporate bonds"

Euxinis

panos_k75 wrote: »

i am interested to hear more about these "corporate bonds"

Sorry for late reply, some crazy days...
Some bonds with current quote numbers here.

Bond quotes (Ukrainian PFTS, market closed 3 November 2008)
Corporate bonds (Financial institutions)
Ticker________________rate(%) date_____Bid_____Ask____Bid%___Ask%
ODNSG Dnister Bank (G) 14.00 13-Jan-09 _97.69 __100.00 _29.19 __14.69
ODGBC2 Dongorbank (C) 15.50 18-Dec-08 _98.90 __99.11 __26.88 ___24.76
ODGBA3 Dongorbank (A) 12.75 18-Nov-08 _99.35 __99.95 __31.99 __14.43
Corporate bonds (Non-financial institutions)
OVVSB VVS-LTD (B) ___15.00 14-Sep-09 _100.50 _101.99 _15.15 _13.12
OVVSA VVS-LTD (A) ___15.00 14-Sep-09 __97.99 _101.49 _18.73 _13.79
OTNFA Favorit (A) ______14.00 9-Dec-08 _100.36 100.36 __10.17 _10.15
OSBMB Spetsbud (B) ___15.00 23-Jun-09 __98.58 _102.32 __18.53 _11.62
OUAHA UkrAutoHolding __15.00 6-Apr-09 __98.85 __99.10 __9.28 ___8.62
OKRVNC Karavan (C) ___20.00 29-Jun-09 __99.17 _99.25 ___23.39 __23.25
OLUAZB LuAZ (B) ______13.50 12-May-09 __95.82 _95.83 __24.26 __24.24
OKZMOA Kostyantyn ZMO 17.00 7-Dec-09 __97.39 102.39 __21.19 _15.39
OKKOA Konti (A) _______13.00 10-Nov-08 __99.51 _99.97 __45.59 _14.98
OINSPA Insakharprom-K 16.00 23-Apr-09 ___99.91 _100.26 _17.19 _16.32
Of course it's a small number of bonds available, including government and municipal, and the rates also vary very much...

Trollfever

Is this the same Ukraine?

Bank crisis hits hard in Ukraine's coal belt

10 hours ago
BULAVINSKOYE, Ukraine (AFP) — For the weary miners coming out at the end of the day's shift in this remote village in the barren hills of eastern Ukraine, the country's financial crisis has hit all too close to home.
"We're still waiting for our salaries. We're working for free," grumbled one miner with a soot-blackened face in a scuffed orange helmet, as he handed in his identification number tag in a decrepit grey building by the mineshaft.
Thousands of miners are in the same situation after Prominvestbank, a major lender where many coal mines have their accounts, was forced into receivership in October amid a deep financial crisis in one of Europe's worst-hit countries.
It's just one example of the kind of financial panic that has hit Ukraine.
Ukrainians have queued up in droves to close down their accounts and change hryvnias into dollars, taking billions of dollars out of the banks.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hDWDFJgfDXGucoy6zGunEtoliTfQ

Euxinis

Trollfever wrote: »

Is this the same Ukraine?

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hDWDFJgfDXGucoy6zGunEtoliTfQ

yeah, truly "analytical" article
sad story...
what else in Internet could be found) also about USA, EU, Russia, China, Iceland, crisis, recession, billions of debts, the end of the world, and people loose their work, homes, health and start to die of starvation...
And at the same time Emerging Markets shares and bonds indexes (like MSCI Emerging Markets) are growing during last week...
(the whole article I must say is also a little bit outdated, even if posted "10 hours ago", fantastic information agency )
Coal industry - wondering if many of those former coal-miners who lost their jobs in 1980-s in UK now regret that the mines were closed?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And about Prominvestbank - the situalion is already solved as I know, a lot of those clients who withdrev money from their accounts after reading some scary newspapers headlines are now putting them back. yes, real panic...
Ratings? Give me a break! Are those the agencies that a year ago rated AIG as an AAA company? None monopolized industry (I'm talking about ratings market with only three players during the last 15-20 years) will be fair to customers. It isn't strange that more and more companies and even governments start to go to court after some ratings agencies activities...

Jonbvn

There is a strong possibility that Ukraine (& other E European countries) could be the next Iceland.

Sorry OP but you are ramping a very high risk strategy. Given your poor English, I believe you may have a vested interest.

Euxinis

Jonbvn wrote: »

There is a strong possibility that Ukraine (& other E European countries) could be the next Iceland.

Sorry OP but you are ramping a very high risk strategy. Given your poor English, I believe you may have a vested interest.

Everything possible, but none of us I think would make such predictions.
Next Iceland? I don't think so, at least because now everyone have at least one lesson to learn something of and act correspondingly.

I've already mentioned that I'm not from UK (at least that is why, I think, it was harder for me to understand the grounds of the criticism concerning the subject of a topic, especially when discussing the inflation and currency risks). Yes, I am from Ukraine and work here as an investment agent, mostly deal with funds. I don't think it means I can't post here, wright? I thought it is a wright place for such discussion and exchange of opinions. At least I'm not now here only for presenting my services or something ...

P.S. Thanks for "poor English";)

Jonbvn

Euxinis wrote: »

Yes, I am from Ukraine and work here as an investment agent

Wow, I was spot on!

Sorry, but you are clearly "ramping".

Euxinis

Jonbvn wrote: »

Wow, I was spot on!

Ok. :beer: yes, 2+2=4
Should we continue?

I didn't think about making secret of it. I was sure that here on this forum there are many practicing professionals in finance sphere, what makes this whole thing more interesting and useful and rich in content.:rolleyes:

Jonbvn wrote: »

Sorry, but you are clearly "ramping".

Ramping? I'm not sure I clearly understand you, but I'm just trying to push the discussion forward, also defending my opinion. As everyone else)))

And about "a very high risk strategy" - I just want to make it clear for myself, you think there is a risk of the collapse of the financial sector (or the whole economy) in emerging markets countries, or you're not satisfied with state/corporate/insurance guarantees, or possible currency fluctuations, inflation risks (I'm trying to get it all together for myself).

Another question - yes, during 2008 a lot of investors (I'm talking not onlu about fixed income instruments) withdrev their assets from forein markets (or because of risk of instability in the countries they've invested to, or because of teir own problems, like the lack of liquidity). So if to beleive to analytics that say that who wanted to leave - already leaved, than what about the investors that stayed in emerging markets (in Ukraine stayed about 20-25%) and give no sign they leave - why they stayed, and - do they risk (I think they do realize, calculate their risks)? Maybe the long term of investing may be the answer?

And how to explain the growing of direct investments from abroad (like venture capital)? Maybe they just "buy when cheap", or occupy the undeveloped markets (where competition in absent)? :huh:

HankMcSpank

Well after Eurovision, there's not a chance in hell I'd be putting anything into eastern europe. The sneaky bar stewards all got there heads together & voted for one another...I suggest they do the same now that they're all skint....oops, they can't, they have no money!

Too bad.

Euxinis

HankMcSpank wrote: »

Well after Eurovision, there's not a chance in hell I'd be putting anything into eastern europe. The sneaky bar stewards all got there heads together & voted for one another...I suggest they do the same now that they're all skint....oops, they can't, they have no money!

Too bad.

as I know the richest men in Europe are from East... and for helping to survive in this crisis in the Eastern Europe ask less money :think: and even getting it have certain doubts that they're gonna use it - maybe it won't be needed
the main problem is that local people aren't used to such things like investing, personal finance planning, etc., have no trust in banks, funds, other financial institutions, and save their mone home
I won't comment everything else said above, it's not a conversation in some pub with a beer in a hand and in a head...