Why should we help the liars who are going to get reposessed?

CluelessJock

millie,

You make me smile.

This thread started with domcastro making a very reasonable point IE those of us that were sensible when getting in to debt are now having to bail out those that were completely irresponsible in order to keep them in properties they should never have bought.

Now most of us, I am sure, recognise that there are people in difficult situations that were responsible and don't mind helping those that have genuine need, your brother may be one. We don't actually need to be told there are genuine cases, so I don't know why you feel the need to remind us in a fashion that, by ignoring those that are irresponsible and having a go at domcastro, infers that all are deserving cases.

Further I think your track record falls far short of qualifying you to give advice on responsible borrowing and borders on being detrimental to those in need of sensible support.

Continually telling people not to worry whist blaming lenders for their situation is not helping. Indeed maybe some straight talking some time ago could have helped you avoid your current situation.

As one poster reminds us these boards are for helping, some times the medicine doesn't taste nice!

milliemonster

CJ

If you re read my first post, I was not having a go at domcastro as you put it, and I quite agree that anyone who has lied about their income to gain a high mortgage and then faced repossession deserves everything they get, I have never inferred that all repossession cases are deserving, but the fact of the matter is that all repossession cases are currently dealt with in the same way, irrespective of how it occurred and that is unfair.

Furthermore, my track record in mortgage borrowing is exemplary, my track record of debt management is also exemplary, my track record of unsecured debt borrowing is pants, I admit, however I think it's rude of you to suggest that my advice is worthless by inferring this because I have outstanding debt. Most people make mistakes in life and this is how we learn, being through difficult situations furthermore entitles someone to give constructive advice if they have learned valuable lessons imo.

If I were facing repossession myself I would think the advice on how to deal with it would be better from someone who had been through the process themselves rather than someone who didn't have a clue what they were talking about.

I have not once in this thread blamed lenders for people getting into the position of facing repossession, I presume you are commenting here on 'advice' I have given in other threads, I wonder why you seem to be taking such an interest in my posts?, and what situation that I am supposedly currently in did I need straighttalking for to avoid?, you are being very presumptious that because jointly we have almost £40k of unsecured debt that this is a major problem situation?, you have no idea what our joint income is and that we just chose to decide to pay it off quickly earlier this summer and have in fact paid off almost £7k in 4 months.

Yes these boards are for helping and I agree that it's not about mollycoddling people all the time, quite often I will tell it like it is, but there is more than one opinion, I don't agree with yours and you clearly don't agree with mine, I have no issue with that, but I do have issue with your narrowminded, stereotypical and presumptious attitude towards me and others that seem to suggest that just because we have debts (and you are obviously so perfect) that we are in no way able to advise people or have a valid opinion about anything to do with money ourselves

CluelessJock

Millie,

domcastro was very clear in where he leveled his criticism……at those who lied to get a mortgage. By definition domcastro acknowledges not all have lied and therefore is clearly not stereotyping.

However, your post 13 starts……Not everyone who is repossessed or being threatened with repossession have lied to get their mortgage and continues…….. please don't stereotype, its unnecessary and hurtful.

Given the above I put it to you that it is not surprising people reacted as they did.

I am glad to see you say in post 33 you agree with domcastro; that those who have lied deserve all they get, I don’t think anyone reading your posts would have realised this.

I will refrain from commenting on your record on debt as I have no desire to offend you by being perceived as rude.

I agree that some people, but not all, having been through repossession will have good advice to offer, especially re the actual mechanics of how it works and I would also agree there would be no point getting advice from someone who didn’t have a clue what they were talking about. I strongly disagree that people who can manage their finances in a manner that avoids repossession and debt are less qualified to offer advice than those who have direct experience. I, for one, would rather have the surgeon with no experience of losing a heart transplant patient than one with the experience of losing 10!

Your debt is your own business and matters not to me however, I am bemused by people who list their debt in detail in a public domain, almost (as it appears to me) as a badge of honour and then get upset when people comment on it. If, as you said in your previous post, you have nothing to be embarrassed about why did you remove the details of your 7 credit card debts and 3 loans? I am glad you did as they did not serve any useful purpose. I acknowledge that some may find it useful to see your total come down. Why were they there to start with?

You are mistaken to think that I don’t believe you have anything constructive to offer, I am sure you do. You are, unfortunately, wrong in your assumption that I am perfect, indeed I have made many mistakes in my life and hope to learn from those I have yet to make. However, I don’t feel any need to publcise my too numerous mistakes and many fewer successes in order to justify or validate any comment I may offer.

As domcastro said in post 25 he got it wrong and he alone will accept responsibility for the outcome. If only more people would accept responsibility they would realise that they can take corrective action going forward.

For the avoidance of doubt I don’t have any specific interest in you. Your post 13 just seemed to defend the indefensible and be written without reading the first post properly.

Debs12

Is it just me but I got lost in all this.

In conculsion those that lied in Mortgage Applications should not be helped...

Does this include Mr Madelson??? Why is Gordon Brown helping him out?

This crazy world I am living in...

hearts

I posted this on the other thread but it is apt here to.

DUE DILIGENCE.

My son wants to borrow 50 quid. I lend him it because I KNOW he is working so he can pay me back.
My other son wants to borrow 10 quid. I dont lend it because I KNOW he is not working so cant pay it back.

So if someone wants to borrow 100k I damn sure make absolutely certain he can pay me back. I certainly don't say " Do you promise me you can pay me back" cos I know because he needs the money he will say yes.

People were desperate to get on the housing "ladder" and not just for greed but for the Great British dream of owning their own home. You cant blame them for taking advantage when the money was practically thrown at them.

How come the Americans were throwing money at anyone who wanted it?. Even though they can simply walk away from the debt, thus causing the present problems. Yet people are making a big deal out of the same thing here where we are not so fortunate. And the numbers are miniscule in comparison.

There is only one criminal here and thats the banks. We shouldn't let them fool us in to accepting the "big bad fraudsters" did it, as an excuse for their ineptitude.

PS
I'd like to hear of even 1 LEGAL case where Self Cert is necessary. By that I mean, where income cannot be proved by either TAX Certs or Bank Statements. I read a few of the posts above mentioning Tax evasion. This is a crime and no bank should be aiding this. All earnings are taxable and cash earned is usually banked. So one way or another there is always proof of income. The simple truth is they didn't care.

The Banks are the only real criminals here.

domcastro

Debs12 wrote: »

Is it just me but I got lost in all this.

In conculsion those that lied in Mortgage Applications should not be helped...

Does this include Mr Madelson??? Why is Gordon Brown helping him out?

This crazy world I am living in...

Gordon Brown has given him a job - not paid his mortgage for him.

And to the above poster: the banks aren't the criminals - if they told you to jump off a cliff - would you? If they tell you to borrow more than you know you could afford - would you? Everyone will say no to question 1.

People have to accept responsibility for their actions - the taxpayer shouldn't have to bail out people who borrowed more than they could afford (and to stick the original content of the post : by lieing)

pfpf

what have i missed?

what has actually prompted this thread?

has there been some kind of official statement announcing help for people with mortgages?

my OH has just been made redundant but we do have insurance and assumed their was no help forthcoming and we had to look after ourselves.

CluelessJock

Hearts,

Are you actually arguing that in a market with interest rates so low there was only one way they could go, that those who knowingly lied to increase their borrowings (often on discounted rates they knew would end even if rates didn't move) should not in any way be held responsible for their own predicament?

If so, do you consider those who did not borrow beyond what they felt comfortable with as foolish?

CJ

CluelessJock

pfpf wrote: »

what have i missed?

what has actually prompted this thread?

has there been some kind of official statement announcing help for people with mortgages?

my OH has just been made redundant but we do have insurance and assumed their was no help forthcoming and we had to look after ourselves.

Heh there pfpf, congratulations on being responsible and actually looking after yourselves. It must be a great comfort, at a particularly difficult time, to know you had the fore sight to realise that circumstances may change. I hope the period of unemployment results in an improvement in circumstances.

domcastro

pfpf: I can't find the original BBC post that said the government was going to help people who are going to be reposessed. It would have been the day I wrote the post. I hope you are ok and get through this alright