Lapland New Forest Scam. How to get money back...

whitewing

Codger: my comment for Shropshire Star is awaiting mideration too:

1. whitewing said: Dec 18th, 2008 at 10:12 am Your comment is awaiting moderation.
   I think any piece of “journalism” that even attempts to dissuade people from claiming refunds that are rightfully theirs, is downright irresponsible.
   Sympathising with scammers who are misrepresenting the service that they are providing shows a complete lack of respect for the true value of money or community.
   Why are there no comments on this article that actually disagree with you?

Shazjag, you need to be very careful with your wording on your post so it doesn't get 'moderated'. However, it is very interesting and well worth everybody keeping an eye out.
______________________________________________________________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=17633351#post17633351

whitewing

Alec,

Whenever I deal with that bank for anything, I have to ask them about 3 times before it gets done. (Actually, most banks are the same).

Have at look at codger's long post from yesterday to see if he has any other useful tips.

Fight for your money. It is definitely owed to you. The fact that the company was able to process your payment means that a financial institute was providing the service which of course meant that you had every reason to believe the info on the website.

______________________________________________________________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=17633351#post17633351

shazjag

alec1962 wrote: »

I have received a reply to my requst for a refund under section 75, their answer is as follows
''The price of each ticket is not between £100.01 and £30,000, which means it's not covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, so we can't help you''.
''Please contact Dorset Trading Standards Office if you want further help''
''Whilst I sympathise with the situation, I'm sorry we can't help you this time''

I called and comlained and was told to provide official proof that the company had ceased trading, I could get an official letter from trading standards confirming this. WRONG Trading Standards DO NOT issue letters or statements to this effect.

I have written to Lapland requesting a refund, no reply, not a surprise.
The bank acting for the credit card company will not admit that I had to buy a family ticket costing over their stupid limit of £100.01 so I am out of pocket by £160.00
I feel I have a justified claim in respect of ''Service not recieved'' as Laplandnewforest.com had closed down prior to my intended visit. Does anyone have any advice what to do next or who can help as I am being totally fobbed off by LLOYDS TSB which I now believe stands for LLOYDS THE SH*T BANK

Hi Alec
Lloyds also wanted proof that they had ceased trading so i copied the BBC news web page that stated its closure and added in writing that the closure notice was from a reputable source which the BBC is!
try this link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/7765080.stm
this is the template i used for the covering letter-
Chargeback - can be used within 120 days of the transaction if the transaction hasn't completed or the company has gone into administration.

Use the template below:

[insert your name
and address]

[insert date]
[insert name and
address of your bank]

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: [insert visa card number]

Ref: Visa Chargeback

[Use this section if the company has gone into administration or delete]
I am writing to request that under your Visa Chargeback rules you reimburse me the value of [enter amount] as paid to [enter company name] for a [enter item purchased] on [enter date] with my Visa debit card.

My claim is made on the grounds that the company has gone into administration.

[Use this section if you have a faulty good or delete]
I am writing to request that under your Visa Chargeback rules you reimburse me the value of [enter amount] as full payment for tickets to Lapland New Forest. I paid for the tickets with my Visa debit card to Lapland New Forest Ltd. on [enter date].

My claim is made on the grounds that the company has closed the facility and has issued a statement on their website that the venue will not be reopened, and as such they are in breach of their contract in providing the service paid for. I have been unable to resolve my complaint with the supplier.

[Use this section for all letters]
I look forward to a full and prompt response to this letter within 14 days.

Yours faithfully,

[insert your signature]

[insert your name (printed)]

good luck

GomerPyle

There have been an uncomfortable number of reports of credit/debit card abuse surrounding this company, and I know from my work elsewhere that these details are a marketable commodity in criminal circles.

I would certainly make a police reort in respect of any misuse of your cards used in payment for tickets. This would give those investigating this company a clearer picture of the type of enterprise this was, and further question why any bank should have supported it.

GomerPyle

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/creditcards/2950511/How-to-avoid-financial-misery-when-a-firm-ceases-trading.html

QUOTE

A Visa spokesman said: "Visa regulations allow for banks to seek financial redress from the merchant's bank if the cardholder has bought goods or services that will not be delivered, for example when a merchant ceases trading. This applies to Visa credit and debit cards."
Visa regulations allowed credit card issuers to initiate a chargeback, even when the amount of the transaction was less than the £100 lower limit stipulated under the Consumer Credit Act.
The spokesman added: "Cardholders should contact their issuing bank. The timeframe for cardholders to contact their bank is 120 days from when they learnt that the merchant would no longer be able to supply the goods or services."
UNQUOTE

Personally I am not one to ever take 'No' for an answer but it seems that Visa and Lloyds TSB aren't singing from the same hymn sheet, and you will note that ceasing trading is merely one of the circumstances given as an example of when you are certain you are not going to receive the goods or service paid for. A photograph of the site showing it's closed is enough, or perhaps the reports showing what happened to people who turned up after the closure.

On a different tack, this clause from the terms and conditions is interesting

QUOTE
This ticket will not be replaced, refunded or exchanged for any reason. Shipping, handling and service charges are non-refundable even if the event is cancelled.
UNQUOTE

There is no point including a term that is unenforceable. In fact, it does more harm than good as it suggests that the enterprise is foreseeing its own early demise. This would be the most lucrative situation for the company in view of the bulk of the money being collected beforehand.

Otherwise my new enterprise is to supply everyone who sends me £50, a gold ingot on the 31st January 2009, only for as long as my gold supply lasts with money non-refundable.

That makes me the new Mr Gold.

springerholic

Well all credit to Lloyds TSB, I sent them a letter a couple of weeks ago requesting a refund under the visa chargeback scheme using the template provided on this website and enclosing a copy of the statement posted on the website saying it had closed. We were due to go on teh 16th December. I have just checked my bank account and amazingly I have received £150 back.. the full amount. I havent had any correspondance from Lloyds but that said I had to dispute an internet transaction a couple of months ago which hadnt been made by me and they refunded that eventually too but didnt confirm in writing, so those of you still worrying, please dont give up hope and its well worth the time to write to the bank or card company. £150 in my pocket and not in the Mears pocket! Result. PS thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread, Im sure that has helped our cause, I have been an outside observer for a long time on this website and this case has been what has inspired me to register. Hopefully this publicity will help put off future scammers!

codger

alec1962 wrote: »

I have received a reply to my requst for a refund under section 75, their answer is as follows
''The price of each ticket is not between £100.01 and £30,000, which means it's not covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, so we can't help you''.
''Please contact Dorset Trading Standards Office if you want further help''
''Whilst I sympathise with the situation, I'm sorry we can't help you this time''

I called and comlained and was told to provide official proof that the company had ceased trading, I could get an official letter from trading standards confirming this. WRONG Trading Standards DO NOT issue letters or statements to this effect.

Alec: Gomer beat me to it but anyway. . . Whoever wrote to you is seeking wiggle-room.

So call 'em back and say, you want a charge-back. Tell 'em the money you paid over was handled by Royal Bank of Scotland's Streamline payments processor, and Streamline has frozen Lapland New Forest's account so your money is still there.

I don't, incidentally, fully understand on what grounds a £160 claim is being knocked back, but I suppose the tin-brain who contacted you is trying to view the total as a cumulative purchase whose individual components don't exceed the magic figure?

Gomer's advice, and he knows whereof he speaks, is bang on in regards to non delivery of service and / or goods. And you're right about not troubling poor ol' Dorset County Council Trading Standards: of course they don't bloody well exist (at Council Tax payers' expense) merely to assist financial institutions to delay, obfuscate, and generally do nothing at all for the very customers -- nay, ye very taxpayers, too -- who keep their staff from the dole queues and their directors on £200,000 a year pensions.

Don't get mad, get even, and keep in touch with this thread. . . then when you finally have your money back -- and assuming the credit card to which you're referring is a Lloyds TSB isssued under licence to VISA -- then tell Lloyd's in which part of Lapland to go stick themselves.;)

EDIT; I've only just noticed, the heading of your post refers not to VISA but to MasterCard. Sorry for not spotting that. That shouldn't make any difference though to the long-term outcome, but it does seem that Lloyds TSB Visa is in a different league -- see springerholic's excellent news at post at #911.

codger

whitewing wrote: »

Codger: my comment for Shropshire Star is awaiting mideration too:

1. whitewing said: Dec 18th, 2008 at 10:12 am Your comment is awaiting moderation.
   I think any piece of “journalism” that even attempts to dissuade people from claiming refunds that are rightfully theirs, is downright irresponsible.
   Sympathising with scammers who are misrepresenting the service that they are providing shows a complete lack of respect for the true value of money or community.
   Why are there no comments on this article that actually disagree with you?

Hey! You're famous!

Your comment was approved by the moderator at that esteemed journal, The Shropshire Star.

It's on display for all the world to see!

Unfortunately the comment from Mr Dennis Codger has been entirely deleted, most probably on the grounds that it is, um, true.

So it only appears in this MSE edition.

Ah well. Thank Gawd for a free Press. Informed democracy would not be in the state of health it is today without the likes of the Shropshire Star -- for which, Little Nell, may gratitude be unconfined!

[Shomething wrong shomewhere? Ed]

GomerPyle

http://info.itvlocal.com/sort_it.shtml

QUOTE

Lapland mystery continues for punters
Lapland New Forest in Dorset has closed after over 1500 complaints were received by Trading Standards. Long queues to see Father Christmas, concerns over animals tied up and a Santa Claus puffing on a cigarette were some of the sites greeting parents and children at the Dorset attraction. With ticket prices topping £100 for a family of four it's not surprising some of your want your money back. Well Sort It is here to help you.

Consumers who have bought tickets for Lapland New Forest are advised that the closure of the park would constitute a Breach of Contract so they should write to the registered office making a claim for a full refund. This is the registered office for consumers to right to (its listed on Companies House so it is in the public domain)

LAPLAND NEW FOREST LIMITED
UNIT 1, WILD PARK HOUSE
HOME FARM ROAD
BRIGHTON
EAST SUSSEX
UNITED KINGDOM
BN1 9HT
We are suggesting that in this case the consumer goes for Proof of Posting rather than recorded delivery so that they can prove they sent the letter – recorded delivery may be returned if there is no one to sign for it

We are advising consumers that if the value of a single ticket was more than £100 and they paid for all or part of it using a credit card that the credit card company becomes jointly and severally liable under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. Even if the cost of each single item is less than £100 we would still advise consumers to contact their credit card issuer as some have a policy of refunding in this kind of situation even though there is no automatic right. It’s always worth asking

Consumers who have paid using a visa debit card should be advised to request a chargeback from their card issuer, who then contacts the company’s payment-processing bank to reclaim the money. This means that even if a company goes into liquidation it is possible to reclaim the money as the claim is made against the bank, not the company itself. The claim can be made against any purchase where the goods or services are not provided, and is not dependent on the supplier going bust. There is no lower limit on claims for chargeback.
UNQUOTE

The amusing thing is that Lapland New Forest Ltd's bankers, via their subsidiary Streamline, are now effectively acting as de facto liquidators, as LNF Ltd obviously can't trade with their funds frozen. If the bank had made the most minimal of checks beforehand they wouldn't now be in this position, but now they are, they also hold funds due to H M Revenue and Customs. It would be more than embarrassing then if funds were released to LNF Ltd and didn't get into the hands of H M Revenue and Customs, because one benefit of the Merchant facility is that it provides perfect accounting records for tax and VAT calculation, not including the sums paid by stall holders direct to Mr Mears.

Anyone having dealings with the Mears family is going to regret it, and end up poorer for the experience, banks and the taxman not excluded. It is hoped that, as Mr Mears didn't really understand what he was doing, he will not end up any richer. Unfortunately, for him, this method of trading provides perfect accounting records and a method to freeze funds before the business can be put into liquidation.

Rockerfella

Well, after sending an email chasing the forms I'd sent 8 days ago, I have an email reply from the bank saying the Lapland New Forest transaction for £70 has been placed in dispute and suspended from my account for 28 days.

They are sending out some MORE forms (!) for me to fill out, I guess so they can investigate further.

No guarantee the money will be fully refunded, but the bank HAS NOT turned me down for an amount of less than £100, despite being told over the phone I couldn’t be able to claim. A change of the bank’s policy perhaps?

Thanks ago to GomerPyle and others for the continuing advice and time spent on helping everyone with this thread.