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1st Post Newbie and totally confused!

Hi everyone! I've been reading these boards for months now trying to glean some advice, but have finally taken the plunge by posting myself.

OH and I had a business fail on us in Feb this year. We were expecting a decent valuation of the pub's F&F, which would clear a lot of the business's debts. This just didn't happen, breweries are the pits to try to deal with, even my solicitor gave up! I have lost tens of thousands in the venture, had to take out a loan for some of the creditors and can't even pay the solicitor, who is now threatening court action! :angry:

The result has meant that I couldn't pay the dues to the HMRC for PAYE/NIC for my staff (9K). The HMRC have now taken it to court and I'm awaiting the CCJ and court order. OH also owes for his business's PAYE/NIC (8K), but HMRC haven't pursued that to the same extent - yet!

Other unsecured loans and credit cards, together with the HMRC debt total 80,000. Mortgage is 360,000, interest only and no equity.

Business Debtline told us that we couldn't get an IVA if we had a CCJ, 2 independent companies have told us we can. We know we can't go with a DMP as the HMRC are involved.

I've been in fulltime employment for 6 months now, hopefully with the prospect of a salary increase in the next few months and OH still has his business, but we're really struggling to pay both the loans and mortgage right now. We thought an IVA was the best option, but the opinion on these boards seems to be to steer clear at all costs.:confused:

I desperately want to hang on to the house if we can and I need my car as I have to travel 60 miles per day to and from work and public transport is non-existent.
So, I'm confused - IVA or bankruptcy. A friend of mine went bankrupt in my area last year and she was treated appallingly, she lost everything, including her dignity.

We're about to go ahead with the IVA in the next few days, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Comments

  • Hi SD,
    sorry to hear about your troubles. Not sure I can be much help, but I would advise you to contact one of the other debt agencies listed in the stickies at the top of this board, before deciding to go with the IVA. If Biz Debtline have told you it's not possible for you, they must have a reason. See what one of the others says.

    Hope all goes well, others should be along to advise too, who have more business experience than me! Take care, CBx
  • So_Sad_Angel
    So_Sad_Angel Posts: 7,363 Forumite
    Hi Shattered & welcome.

    Well done on your first post ...I hope that it is therapeutic writing it all down & sharing with us.

    Unfortunately I am not aware of the business implications but would say please be very wary about doing an IVA with an `Independant` Company....these will always push for an IVA as they make high commissions on them...much of what you pay will go into their pockets before your creditors`.

    I would call Business Debtline again & they are a recognised debt charity so their advice carries alot of weight with the Courts & OR....above all the advice is impartial & thats what you need.

    This situation must be causing you immense stress & anxiety. I congratulate you in seeking out a solution.

    It is unfortunate that your friend suffered from going BR...it is certainly not easy but if it is the only sensible solution then so be it.

    Take care & keep posting,

    Angex
  • Thanks for the quick replies. The Business Debtline did advise an IVA initially but when I later told them of the impending court case, that's when they said I couldn't have an IVA and a DMP was out of the question.

    The first company who initially contacted me about a loan told me I could have the IVA with a CCJ. I didn't go with them because they wanted a fee up front.

    The one I'm dealing with now seem a lot better and they don't charge a fee until the IVA is set up, then it's the admin charges.

    My thoughts are that with bankruptcy, I'll definitely lose the house and possibly the car. I'll also have to tell my employers I guess, which might affect my promotion prospects.

    With the IVA, I should be able to keep the house (as there is no equity and not likely to be significant increases in the next 5 years according to the estate agents) and initial calculations show I'd be much better off with the payments and would actaully have a little bit to live off apart from the essentials, which is more than I have now!
  • If you have no equity in the house now, unless your mortgage is a ridiculous amount its unlikely you will lose the house in BR as it has no value its not an asset

    As for a CCJ, it cant be included in a IVa as you are bound by the CCJ to pay in full, unless the creditor in question allows otherwise, but they are not legaly obliged to go with the majoraty if the IVA is accepted, they may not agree to be included, if so the IVA wont work

    so im surprised any company has said you can go for an IVA to be honest.

    Which company are you going through? are there any set up fees for pre contract negotiations?
    Thats it, i am done, Blind-as-a-Bat has left the forum, for good this time, there is no way I can recover this account, as the password was random, and not recorded, and the email used no longer exits, nor can be recovered to recover the account, goodbye all …………. :(
  • stevelinz
    stevelinz Posts: 180 Forumite
    Hi, You say you have to tell your work, Is that in the contract if not then you do not have to tell anyone.

    As for the house do you have to much equity in the property if not depending on your mortgage you may be able to keep it.

    I was in the same boat as you with having a pub and the brewery taking me for a massive amount that meant I was BR.

    But I have managed to keep both my car and house.

    If you want to personal message me I am happy to talk through the business issues and what the OR had to say

    Good Luck
    Steve
  • Wow, now I do feel scared! The company is Tenon and they absolutely assured me that they could include CCJs.
    As for the house - we have absolutley no equity, in fact, if anything we could be looking at negative equity.

    As for charges - no, nothing until the IVA is set-up
  • The thing with an IVA is that you have to stick to the letter of the payments every month for 5 years and if you miss even one you could be forced to go bankrupt anyway, after having paid thousands to the solicitor who is carrying out the IVA for you.

    If you have negative equity or no equity, and no significant assets, you won't lose anything by going bankrupt. My partner is a creditor to someone who has gone bankrupt and they had £12k equity in their property and the OR said it wasn't enough to bother with as it wouldn't clear their debts of £80k anyway. As he had no assets, there wasn't even a creditor's meeting or any offer made to us. They can't take what you don't have! I am very surprised you haven't been advised to go bankrupt, but the soliciors who make money out of IVAs are VERY persuasive (surprise, surprise!)

    I would speak to someone independent with no vested interest in whatever course you take, like someone at the CAB. Best of luck.
    DMP Mutual Support Thread member 244
    Quit smoking 13/05/2013
    Joined Slimming World 02/12/13. Loss so far = 60lb in 28 weeks :j 18lb to go :o
  • Morning Shattered,

    If there is no equity then the liklyhood is that the property is of no value to the official receiver & you will keep it...that is provided you can afford the monthly maintenance (mtge/upkeep etc)

    I think here the key is now to get as much info as possible...if you go IVA & it fails then you are potentially BR anyway so make sure that you get plenty of knowledge so YOU make an INFORMED decision.

    Nite, Angexx
  • Hi Shattered,
    I can only echo what others have already said - you will only get truly impartial advice from one of the debt charities. The IVA co sound suspicious to me, they are, after all, going to get a hefty whack out of you when (if) the IVA goes through.

    Best advice is to call Business Debtline on Monday and go through the options again. As has been said above, you are unlikely to lose the house if you go BR if there's no equity in it, as the OR would not consider it an asset.

    Sorry to add to the confusion, really hope you get things sorted - let us know how it goes! CBx
  • fiveyearplan
    fiveyearplan Posts: 10,143 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Hi everyone! I've been reading these boards for months now trying to glean some advice, but have finally taken the plunge by posting myself. The first step is always the hardest.

    OH and I had a business fail on us in Feb this year. We were expecting a decent valuation of the pub's F&F, which would clear a lot of the business's debts. This just didn't happen, breweries are the pits to try to deal with, even my solicitor gave up! I have lost tens of thousands in the venture, had to take out a loan for some of the creditors and can't even pay the solicitor, who is now threatening court action! :angry:Breweries are notorious for their behaviour to LLs. We've had several on here who have gone BR.

    The result has meant that I couldn't pay the dues to the HMRC for PAYE/NIC for my staff (9K). The HMRC have now taken it to court and I'm awaiting the CCJ and court order. OH also owes for his business's PAYE/NIC (8K), but HMRC haven't pursued that to the same extent - yet! IF HMRC are pursuing you I think there is probably a high chance they will petition for your bankruptcy. At least you'll save the £500 it would take to do it yourself!

    Other unsecured loans and credit cards, together with the HMRC debt total 80,000. Mortgage is 360,000, interest only and no equity. The OR will probably have no interest in selling your house at the moment but he has that right for the next 3 years unless you buy the beneficial interest. If you're in negative equity that would be £1.00 plus about £250 solicitor's fees, not sure if that would be double if you and OH went BR and had to buy beneficial interest for both but still even that would only be £500).

    Business Debtline told us that we couldn't get an IVA if we had a CCJ, 2 independent companies have told us we can. We know we can't go with a DMP as the HMRC are involved. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER speak to any of these independent companies. They are out to make profits at your expense and don't care what is in your best interest. THey are like little red riding hood's wolf!

    I've been in fulltime employment for 6 months now, hopefully with the prospect of a salary increase in the next few months and OH still has his business, but we're really struggling to pay both the loans and mortgage right now. We thought an IVA was the best option, but the opinion on these boards seems to be to steer clear at all costs.:confused:Congratulations for getting a full time job, get some advice pronto and if you do decide BR stop paying your non-priority bills (keep up to date with mortgage, utilities and esp council tax).

    I desperately want to hang on to the house if we can and I need my car as I have to travel 60 miles per day to and from work and public transport is non-existent. If you need your car for work more than likely you will be able to keep it depending on its value. If its on HP you should be okay because it doesn't belong to you until you make the last payment. IF you own it yourself or bought it with a loan then the loan will go into BR and the OR may sell it but give you money back to buy a cheaper replacement.
    So, I'm confused - IVA or bankruptcy. A friend of mine went bankrupt in my area last year and she was treated appallingly, she lost everything, including her dignity. Its a shame your friend didn't find this forum first, she would have better known how to deal with things. You shouldn't feel any shame.

    We're about to go ahead with the IVA in the next few days, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. I would go through this board or maybe post a thread entitled IVA suggestions or similar to get other people's experience of IVA's. Your credit rating will be the same with IVA or BR. Many people on here were mis-sold IVA's and ended up BR a year or so down the line thus wasting all that money spent on the IVA and also they would have been discharged from BR if they took that route in the first place.

    Hi and welcome. You have a big decision to make in the near future. If you do decide BR you will get plenty of advice and support on here from people who have already been through it. I had 2 businesses and it was one of them that literally bankrupted me so know where you are coming from. I'm now running the other business and in full time employment. We still have our house and one car. My car had to go but to be honest I can easily do without it and can still use OH's car.

    Good luck and keep on posting any questions you might have.

    :j :j


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