This is everybody's fault but mine - Homer J Simpson

Dithering_Dad

Several months ago I posted a thread to open up a debate about concerns I had regarding the amount of direct financial advice that was proffered on MSE by people who had no financial qualifications, background or experience and how this advice could adversely affect MSE:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=884343

With the fall of the Icelandic banks we've seen a huge number of Homer J Simpsons come out of the woodwork and start finger pointing at Martin Lewis for providing bad advice regarding these banks.

As far as I can see, all he provided was a league table of savings accounts with their interest rates shown in descending order and allowed the consumer to choose from whichever offering that she/he felt comfortable with.

Nevertheless, Martin had to defend himself on the media and on here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1210797
"The have a go at Martin thread..."

After posting my thread, I received a lot of abuse from people who only half-read the details, or read into it what they wanted. No, I wasn't going to sue anyone - I ask for financial recommendations and then I make my own decisions, I am an adult after all and responsible for my own money. My point on that thread was that not everyone thinks or acts like this and that if things go wrong, people need someone to blame.

I feel vindicated in having posted my 'Can I sue' thread and just wish that it had been allowed to stay open to allow healthy debate. That it was closed by Martin himself lends a certain irony to my point, given the events of the last week.

To reiterate; MSE members should think twice before they profer direct advice. They should follow the approach adopted by the IFA's who contribute to MSE and provide suggestions that allow the requestor to make their own judgement call.

MikeJones_2

Hi Dithering Dad,

I'm entirely with you on this issue as evidenced in this thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1092303

It appears we were both making a similar comment and the point I was trying to get over was that when an individual is perceived to be an expert on a subject, then an opinion or subjective comment expressed by that person can often be perceived as 'advice'. The water becomes muddied and sooner or later someone gets hurt (in financial terms).

I like wikipedia's definition of advice and opinion:

'An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something which it is either impossible to verify the truth of, or the truth of which is thought unimportant to the person. It is an assertion about something especially if that something lies in the future and it's truth or falsity cannot be directly established e.g. induction. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.'

'Advice (opinion), an opinion or recommendation offered as a guide to action, conduct.'

Mike Jones

I work in the field of Pension Education and Pension Guidance in the UK. I am a current member of the Specialist Pensions Forum as well as being a Voluntary Adviser for The Pensions Advisory Service. I work with scheme members, employers, trustees, scheme administrators and advisers on most things to do with employer sponsored pension schemes. The views expressed by me in this thread are my personal opinions. You should seek professional advice from an appropriately experienced and qualified adviser. I am not an IFA.

Dithering_Dad

Thanks Mike, I do remember your thread and how it echoed my earlier 'locked' one. Especially interesting was EdInvestor's stock comment:

EdInvestor wrote: »

People may think a mix of information and opinion adds up to 'advice' in the general sense, but there is a big difference between that kind of informal advice and the specific meaning of regulated "advice".

If you receive regulated "advice" , procedures will be gone through and you will be able to make an official complaint for redress if the advice was unsuitable and led to you making losses. You pay for this regulated advice of course.

No such regulated paid for "advice" with inbuilt protection is given on this forum by anyone including regulated persons who may contribute.This is a free and anonymous site..

I'd have thought most posters realise that..

Clearly there is a large minority of people who don't realise that, given the large outcry against Martin for allegedly recommending the IceSave bank accounts.

As I said in my original thread, many people are not internet or forum 'savvy' and come onto MSE after having the site recommended by friends or colleagues. They may not realise that while certain MSE members may have made a large number of posts, received a large number of 'thanks' and speak with expertise on a particular subject yet might be totally incorrect with their advice.

While I realise (and it was pointed out many times by contributors to my original thread :rolleyes:) that there is a disclaimer within the MSE terms and conditions, it has to be recognised that not every one reads these, and indeed if they did read terms & conditions in the real world, half of the issues reported in the forums would not occur!

It should also be recognised that if people are naive enough to fall for a phishing scam or nigerian will scam, then they're certainly naive enough to log onto a highly respected financial website and blindly follow the direct advice of some who seems to know what they're talking about.

I hate to think how many people have cashed in endowments that would have given decent returns, stopped paying into pension plans in favour of ISAs and lost a healthy tax incentive or decided against using an IFA for very technical financial issues and saved a commision but lost thousands in tax or investment returns.

While there may be no redress in court, the people who discover they were given bad advice will certainly be very vocal to their friends and colleagues and it could damage the reputation of both MSE and Martin.

Dick_here

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

I hate to think how many people have cashed in endowments that would have given decent returns, stopped paying into pension plans in favour of ISAs and lost a healthy tax incentive or decided against using an IFA for very technical financial issues and saved a commision but lost thousands in tax or investment returns.

Perhaps Ed could give us a ballpark figure ?