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Buying an Annuity - Level or increasing- which?

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Got a small pension and looking at buying an annuity, I am 58 and have another deferred pension. Having played about with the annuity figures from a couple of sites the question is which is the better option, Level, 3% or RPI.

My figures suggest that it will take 15 years for the 3% option and 17 years for the RPI (from what I can deduce it seems to be based on 4.58%) to overtake the Level alternative. The interesting thing is that the projected total payments over time, against all options, are almost equal at 28 years.

I am not relying on the difference in payment as a source of income; just want the best value for money.

My preference is to go with a Level option, any opinions.
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Comments

  • EdInvestor
    EdInvestor Posts: 15,749 Forumite
    Index linked annuities are very poor value, go with a level ( if you are not eligible for an enhanced/impaired life product ) and save the extra separately if worried about inflation.
    Trying to keep it simple...;)
  • ATF101
    ATF101 Posts: 54 Forumite
    EdInvestor wrote: »
    Index linked annuities are very poor value, go with a level ( if you are not eligible for an enhanced/impaired life product ) and save the extra separately if worried about inflation.

    Thank you Ed,

    All my figures tended to support that approach.
  • EdInvestor wrote: »
    Index linked annuities are very poor value, go with a level ( if you are not eligible for an enhanced/impaired life product ) and save the extra separately if worried about inflation.

    EdInvestor's comment is well-intention, although you should note that it is not a factual statement - and if it's not a fact, then it is an opinion which is subjective and therefore is advice - which I didn't think this forum permitted?

    We don't know enough from this post about AFT101's financial situation such as other income sources, tax bracket, marital status, dependants, attitude to risk etc.

    And that's not even mentioning ATF101s health and families medical history - which has to be paramount in deciding when and how best to annuitise in order to achieve what ATF101 requests i.e. "the best value for money".

    Mike Jones

    I work in the field of Pension Education and Pension Guidance in the UK. I am a current member of the Specialist Pensions Forum as well as being a Voluntary Adviser for The Pensions Advisory Service. I work with scheme members, employers, trustees, scheme administrators and advisers on most things to do with employer sponsored pension schemes. The views expressed by me in this thread are my personal opinions. You should seek professional advice from an appropriately experienced and qualified adviser.
  • EdInvestor
    EdInvestor Posts: 15,749 Forumite
    MikeJones wrote: »
    EdInvestor's comment is well-intention, although you should note that it is not a factual statement - and if it's not a fact, then it is an opinion which is subjective and therefore is advice - which I didn't think this forum permitted?


    Opinions and information is all you will find on this forum, there is no "regulated" advice given by anyone, including you.I've never met anyone in the industry who thought inflation-linked annuities were value for money.
    Trying to keep it simple...;)
  • EdInvestor wrote: »
    I've never met anyone in the industry who thought inflation-linked annuities were value for money.


    No offence intended, EdInvestor, but that doesn't make it alright though does it? Endowments were much beloved by the industry as a tool to repay mortgages 20-30 years ago.

    Given the dramatic leaps in life expectancy over the last century - the impact of which has only really been recognised over the last 5-10 years - what the industry thought was good previously, may well have already changed or be in the process of changing.

    Your comment specifically says "...go with a level...[annuity]" which is a recommendation, is it not?


    Mike Jones

    I work in the field of Pension Education and Pension Guidance in the UK. I am a current member of the Specialist Pensions Forum as well as being a Voluntary Adviser for The Pensions Advisory Service. I work with scheme members, employers, trustees, scheme administrators and advisers on most things to do with employer sponsored pension schemes. The views expressed by me in this thread are my personal opinions. You should seek professional advice from an appropriately experienced and qualified adviser.
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 119,783 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Endowments were much beloved by the industry as a tool to repay mortgages 20-30 years ago.
    Not just by the industry. The media and even the Consumers Assocation promoted them as best as little as 15 years ago.

    level annuities have been better value in the last 10 years or so as inflation was basically a non-issue but inflation is a risk that RPI indexation would protect you from. Like most forms of protection, it costs you more and it may or may not pay off but you pay your money and you take your chance. You may be right, you may be wrong. It depends really on how much you want to risk your retirement income.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • ATF101
    ATF101 Posts: 54 Forumite
    Suddenly my post has generated a great deal of additional debate.

    Firstly can I thank each one for their interest and contribution to my situation.

    I believe I have a reasonable understanding of pensions/savings/tax. The proposed yield from this pension will account for 5% of total current income, all lower tax bracket, and projected 7% beyond 65 again this will be > £10k. for tax purposes.
    My original question was prompted by what appeared to be a very poor annuity return against RPI (3,2%) vs. Level (6.2%). Given the number of years before the totals from one will overtake the other and my other income, then the Level option appeared the more attractive. Incidentally, no health problems and quote was based on joint life (50%) with 10 year guarantee.

    Hope this all make sense.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Mike,
    MikeJones wrote: »
    if it's not a fact, then it is an opinion which is subjective and therefore is advice - which I didn't think this forum permitted?

    Regulated advice, meaning a professional exercising their professional skills as they would in their normal line of regulated activity, is what is prohibited.

    EdInvestor makes no claim to be an investment professional (and for comparison, I specifically disclaim it in my user profile).

    That means in part that either of us can in general only be considered to be giving opinions here and that is entirely permissible and gives either of us more freedom to comment than professionals in the fields about which we write.
    MikeJones wrote: »
    I work in the field of Pension Education and Pension Guidance in the UK. I am a current member of the Specialist Pensions Forum as well as being a Voluntary Adviser for The Pensions Advisory Service. I work with scheme members, employers, trustees, scheme administrators and advisers on most things to do with employer sponsored pension schemes. The views expressed by me in this thread are my personal opinions. You should seek professional advice from an appropriately experienced and qualified adviser.

    However, the above may not apply to you, since you make a claim to be a professional, and if so you must avoid giving advice in your area of expertise, while we are all free to give opinions and general guidance, perhaps tuned to the general details given by a poster.

    One ironic consequence of this is that ignorant consumers have more freedom to comment than highly skilled professionals.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ATF101, first thing to consider is that the report of the Pensions Commission noted that for a person of average health the optimal age to purchase an annuity is currently around 75 years old and those younger than that would be better off by being invested via income drawdown and achieving average investment performance.

    The small proportion of your income that this sum will be providing suggests that you will not be greatly affected by variations in value during drawdown and that you have the flexibility to seek the potentially higher income available via drawdown.

    Drawdown also offers the prospect of an income that may grow with earnings, not just with inflation. You may recall the fuss and campaigns to get the state pension linked to earnings because not doing so causes retired people to have constant income that gradually falls below the general wealth of society. That in turn increases the number in relative poverty - defined as 60% of median income - because the median income rises faster than inflation and the pension.

    You do need to consider whether you're comfortable with the variability of investing before choosing drawdown for all or some of the total sum.

    Drawdown also gives improved provision for a spouse, since their income from the pension is not halved, as it would be with a typical dual life annuity.

    Moving on to the annuity alternative that's the mainstream choice today, it's clear that someone who invests half of the difference in income each year between an escalating annuity and a level annuity and achieves typical investment performance can expect to be better off than if they chose the escalating annuity. This is because annuities are generally producing their income via a link to comparatively low performance government and, increasingly, corporate bonds. Drawdown can instead include a portion of investments that can be expected to grow at a faster rate.

    One other consideration for the annuity is whether you need a dual life pension. This pension seems to be destined to provide a relatively small proportion of your income so it may not be required, as the living costs of one person are lower than two. One alternative is to take a single life pension, buy a life assurance policy to provide a lump sum to your spouse on your death and invest some of the difference in income between a single life and dual life annuity.

    You should also consider whether your spouse has a pension income in their own name. If they do not have anticipated pension income in their own name that will reach 10,000 a year in today's money there is some tax gain potential by using some of the income to pay into a pension in their name. Upon your death that could be used to buy a single life annuity for them, or could be taken at age 65 when the higher tax allowance starts. Even if they are not earning it's possible to pay in 3600 a year after basic rate tax relief that they get regardless of whether they are actually paying any tax. That combination of tax relief now and no tax on the first 10,000 over age 65 is some extra boost to this approach.

    Do also note that this is not an either/or decision. You can freely mix drawdown with one or more types of annuity purchased with part of the pension pot if you think that is your best option.

    Lots of possibilities for you to consider in light of your own situation and preferences.
  • ATF101
    ATF101 Posts: 54 Forumite
    Thank you Jamesd for such a detailed reply which has provided a great deal of food for thought. As I plan to see an IFA shortly to consider my options this will be of great assistance.

    jamesd wrote: »
    ATF101, first thing to consider is that the report of the Pensions Commission noted that for a person of average health the optimal age to purchase an annuity is currently around 7 years old and those younger than that would be better off by being invested via income drawdown and achieving average investment performance.

    Please could you confirm the underlined emboldened sections.

    Many thanks.
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