Cheap(er) Business Class Flights

machtzu

I quite like the idea of MaxJet as its a flight for £300 ish is about the same price as even a cheap carrier to JFK from London. Bearing that in mind there is still nothing like BA First Class!

mcgi6ah2

Machtzu:

1) I don't know where you see £300 for a Maxjet seat. Cheapest is £857 return that I know of.

2) I can assure you that EOS flights significantly exceed the BA first class experience in a number of critical areas (although not across the board - for example wine and champagne list is less varied and in flight entertainment is quite weak at moment, plus toilets are economy toilets). More space, better service level, faster check in at both London and New York ends (don't remember BA business or first class personally escorting passengers all the way to lounge at one end and all the way to luggage belt at other). At arrival at JFK for example all EOS passengers were called to the front of the passport control queue. BA only manages to do this at departure (as does EOS) - not arrival as well!!!

pin

mcgi6ah2 wrote:

Machtzu:

1) I don't know where you see £300 for a Maxjet seat. Cheapest is £857 return that I know of.

2) I can assure you that EOS flights significantly exceed the BA first class experience in a number of critical areas (although not across the board - for example wine and champagne list is less varied and in flight entertainment is quite weak at moment, plus toilets are economy toilets). More space, better service level, faster check in at both London and New York ends (don't remember BA business or first class personally escorting passengers all the way to lounge at one end and all the way to luggage belt at other). At arrival at JFK for example all EOS passengers were called to the front of the passport control queue. BA only manages to do this at departure (as does EOS) - not arrival as well!!!

I am in no doubt that EOS is better value than BA First on a money basis. However BA First probably exceeds EOS in a number of major areas (please note I have not travelled either).

BA does have priority check in for first class passangers. Also the First lounges in Heathrow are supposed to be pretty good, along with the complimentary Molton Brown Spa. First passangers have priority boarding (EOS won't be able to do due to everyone being of the same class!). Again at JFK the BA lounge is supposed to be pretty good (along with the Molton Brown spa).

In terms of actual flight I understand the BA First seats are supposed to be better (and bigger) than EOS.

However, like I have said at the start, EOS is probably better value.

mcgi6ah2

Seat - BA first class seats same 6'6" as EOS, but not as well designed - although with data connectivity and air phone that EOS do not have.

Lounges - BA first class lounges are better than EOS. By a long way at Stansted (where it is a fairly basic setup) and a closer thing at JFK (where EOS use Emirates and allow pre flight dining as per BA first class). EOS try to make up for this at Stansted by providing rooms at the Radisson SAS for showers to use after arrival or before departure.

Catering - BA first class has better catering options and a more extensive wine list. BA first class do not serve the food as nicely or have as good service level (although may change as passenger numbers increase on EOS).

Check in - BA has priority check in for First class (obviously), but does not personally escort you through to the lounge from checking in. BA first class does not then give you any priority on immigration at JFK - all EOS passengers were called to the front of the queue for this. EOS gives priority boarding to all 48 passengers (13 on my return leg) and does not then require the passengers to wait while they allow economy to board.

In absolute terms it is easy to identify specific areas where BA is better than EOS (and vice versa), but as a whole package I think EOS in my view was better (other people entitled to own view - but helps if you've flown them). On top of this EOS is less than the fully flexible BA business class air fare (although with fewer flights to switch to).

One other niggle with EOS was that the cabin is at one set temperature with no local adjustment per seat.

machtzu

mcgi6ah2 wrote:

Machtzu:

1) I don't know where you see £300 for a Maxjet seat. Cheapest is £857 return that I know of.

2) I can assure you that EOS flights significantly exceed the BA first class experience in a number of critical areas (although not across the board - for example wine and champagne list is less varied and in flight entertainment is quite weak at moment, plus toilets are economy toilets). More space, better service level, faster check in at both London and New York ends (don't remember BA business or first class personally escorting passengers all the way to lounge at one end and all the way to luggage belt at other). At arrival at JFK for example all EOS passengers were called to the front of the passport control queue. BA only manages to do this at departure (as does EOS) - not arrival as well!!!

I saw on their site a £300-350 single and return for about £650ish

Cardew

mcgi6ah2 wrote:

BA first class does not then give you any priority on immigration at JFK - all EOS passengers were called to the front of the queue for this. EOS gives priority boarding to all 48 passengers (13 on my return leg) and does not then require the passengers to wait while they allow economy to board.

Interesting and objective posts on this new service - thanks.

I am particularly interested in how EOS arrange to 'jump' the immigration queue.

The only time I was taken to the front of the queue(with others) was in Chicago when a late arrival gave us a few minutes to change planes.

Apart from that I have never had priority and I frequently fly 'at the front of the plane'. In fact I understood that it is expressly against US Immigration Policy.

If I had paid £000's for a First Class ticket I would most certainly object to EOS passengers having priority over me. I can't see BA/AA etc putting up with this for long!!

mcgi6ah2

EOS fly to terminal 4 at JFK, I presume this is how they manage it as the other major transatlantic carriers do not use this terminal.

I did wonder how it was possible, but for immigration to request first class passengers from BA flight x to come to the front would upset other passengers. With EOS, it implicitly means first class passengers with out explicitly upsetting others in the queue (as they presume it is something more serious).

On the other hand (thinking cynically) it may have been because EOS occupy an entire luggage carousel for very few passengers and airport staff saw this as a quick way to free up a carousel.

At the Stansted side of the flight there are no queues when the EOS flight (and Maxjet) touches down, as Stansted receives no other overnight flights (apart from Maxjet) and is only busy doing departures at that time of the morning. As my wife has a British National Overseas passport this saved us about 20 minutes at passport control compared to Heathrow.

In addition, Stansted does not suffer from the holding patterns of Heathrow. For me personally a flight landing at Stansted is also quite a bit easier to get to office and home than Heathrow.

Cardew

mcgi6ah2 wrote:

EOS fly to terminal 4 at JFK, I presume this is how they manage it as the other major transatlantic carriers do not use this terminal.

I did wonder how it was possible, but for immigration to request first class passengers from BA flight x to come to the front would upset other passengers. With EOS, it implicitly means first class passengers with out explicitly upsetting others in the queue (as they presume it is something more serious).

On the other hand (thinking cynically) it may have been because EOS occupy an entire luggage carousel for very few passengers and airport staff saw this as a quick way to free up a carousel.

At the Stansted side of the flight there are no queues when the EOS flight (and Maxjet) touches down, as Stansted receives no other overnight flights (apart from Maxjet) and is only busy doing departures at that time of the morning. As my wife has a British National Overseas passport this saved us about 20 minutes at passport control compared to Heathrow.

In addition, Stansted does not suffer from the holding patterns of Heathrow. For me personally a flight landing at Stansted is also quite a bit easier to get to office and home than Heathrow.

I thought Virgin used Terminal 4 at JFK and Richard might not like his baby to be described as other than a 'major transatlantic carrier'!!

A quick check revealed a host of major airlines also using T4 including Swissair, KLM, Emirates, EL AL, Kuwait, Singapore, Pakistan etc. I also thought I read that T4 was going to be modified to take the mega Airbus. - double decker walkways etc.

Your luggage carousel idea sounds plausible, but is that to be a one off? I have often had to wait a long while at US Immigration and, in the current security situation, with several Middle East airlines using T4 it has the potential to cause serious delays.


To my mind the biggest disadvantages of the service are access to Stansted and the B757 which is a little slower than the other Boeings(cruises at 0.8). Also if you sit behind the engines it is quite a bit noisier than up front - as you pointed out. AA in Bus/First class hand out Bose noise cancellation headphones with their DVD.

wolvoman

mcgi6ah2 wrote:

EOS fly to terminal 4 at JFK, I presume this is how they manage it as the other major transatlantic carriers do not use this terminal.

I did wonder how it was possible, but for immigration to request first class passengers from BA flight x to come to the front would upset other passengers. With EOS, it implicitly means first class passengers with out explicitly upsetting others in the queue (as they presume it is something more serious).

On the other hand (thinking cynically) it may have been because EOS occupy an entire luggage carousel for very few passengers and airport staff saw this as a quick way to free up a carousel.

At the Stansted side of the flight there are no queues when the EOS flight (and Maxjet) touches down, as Stansted receives no other overnight flights (apart from Maxjet) and is only busy doing departures at that time of the morning. As my wife has a British National Overseas passport this saved us about 20 minutes at passport control compared to Heathrow.

In addition, Stansted does not suffer from the holding patterns of Heathrow. For me personally a flight landing at Stansted is also quite a bit easier to get to office and home than Heathrow.

Interesting points and I'd love to give EOS a go.

However there are a couple more drawbacks:

Because of the fact there are only 1 or 2 flights per day, then there is little flexibility for changing your schedule at the last minute. I've done this several times with BA out of New York where I might have been booked on the 7pm departure, but a longer day at work has meant calling up to be put on the 8pm or 9pm or 10pm or 11pm instead.

Stansted is not good for connections. Passengers from Edingburgh, Glasgow, Amsterdam etc have a harder job connecting. OK they could fly easyjet or ryanair - but why would they do that only to connect to an expensive EOS flight?

EOS and Maxjet aren't too good if you want to go to somewhere other than New York!!!

mcgi6ah2

Cardew/Wolvoman - agree with your points. Only realised after posting that Virgin use terminal 4. That aside Emirates, Singapore and others are not major transatlantic carriers. The major transatlantics are the US airlines plus Virgin and BA.

As far as being called to the front of the queue, it happened this time and I can't vouch for whether it would happen again - the carousel was one thought, but then the belts weren't all that busy anyway.

EOS also provide Bose noise cancelling headphones with their media players.

The 757 is undeniably a noisier aircraft - I didn't have a problem with it, but it was noticeable.

In terms of speed the EOS flight takes 35 minutes longer from JFK than a 747 from JFK - however I believe you more than make up 35min with the number of passengers being boarded, check in and landing processes. In addition those 35mins provide a slightly better chance for a decent amount of sleep. The fastest airport to land at is actually Newark for flight times.

My colleague was doing BA at the same times I was doing EOS and had a 3hr delay on the outbound and 1hr delay return. On the outbound he was in business and return was in first. The BA business lounge was full on departure and for the 3hr delay the lounge staff provided a £10 voucher to get a meal - very bizarre way of treating a passenger paying £4k+ on a ticket. That said my colleague had the flexibility to change to two other flights that evening which I did not (although two were within 40mins of eachother so weren't very useful).

Finally - I disagree about the Stansted connections. You aren't going to get business class connections to other airports but it has far and away the most UK and European flights of any of the UK airports. Specific connectivity obviously varies, but I find it most flexible for getting to Glasgow with Air Berlin, Easyjet and Ryanair (prestwick) flying to it, providing more options than Gatwick or Heathrow. BA flights internally in the UK are all single class anyway (although they'll happily charge you a business fare) with the only real addition being a bad sandwich, drink and lounge. Get yourself a priority pass membership and you can use the lounges anyway, then just buy yourself a nice Pret sandwich instead. If you are actually trying to go somewhere other than New York as your final destination you should be flying with a carrier that goes there directly and in which case it would deserve a different thread and not be about business class fares to New York ;-)

In terms of getting to the city (read Bank, Liverpool Street etc) Stansted is second only to City Airport and probably on a par with Gatwick - Heathrow is worst.