Asked for Dental NHS Scale and Polish.Told "Go to Hygienist at £25 extra"

welshdent

booze we dont think you are a parasite. Far from it. But we do think we are not getting what we are saying and taking the approach that by not agreeing with you has made us wrong is not helpful when all we are trying to do is safe your blood pressure and save your poor dentist all the hassle of fielding query after query and comlaint after complaint. We would prefer you did NOT end up a heart sink patient because we think you may even find that by making less of a name for yourself you may actually get more out of them than you are entitled to. For example my comments on the private scalings on over 60s. I often tell my patients to ignore my scaling or accept a cheaper charge rather than pay the full £12. You said yourself that they barely did anything to you nd it wasnt like previous scalings. I am not being funny but doesnt that tell you something?!? If they can not find anything to remove then they can not remove it ... and as a result you dont get the car wash effect. As has been stated, the NHS is designed to provide all necessary treatment to get you to health. I would like to refer you to the british society of periodontology guidelines on the basic periodontal exam.

http://www.bsperio.org.uk/members/policy.pdf

This BPE exam is what many of us here have commented on and what we said would need to be carried out to indicate your need.

Pages of interests to you are pages 4 and 5. The score necessitating a scale and polish is grade 2. Grades 0 and 1 do not indicate intervention, grade 1 is for advice. Grades 3 and 4 are more advanced and require to all intents and purpose ... a deeper clean ... which on the NHS qualifies for a band 2 clean up anyway. So back on track a scale and polish for health grounds is indicated only for grade 2. If you note, staining is not included as an indicator.

welshdent

booze re your google search .... I do not doubt that there are some dodgy practices going on and some of those people do sound like they have a case to complain. But with the information you have provided to us ... you personally do not sound like you do. I do agree that when a practice uses a hygieneist for private scale and polishes they need to be absolutely clear that it is because a) they do not "need" a scale and polish but the service is available to them if the want to use it and b) it is private.

OR offer the "NHS" one with the dentist or you can chose to see someone who is actually good at it privately. I have no problems where people are given the choice and accept it. I have many patients that want to see my hygieneist on a private basis.

Apollonia

boozercruiser wrote: »

I did a Google in respect of complaints about this issue.....and they are all over the Internet.....this is just one small thread.....:D

.................[ Apollonia removed the posts quoted from the google search referred to]..............


SO......There are an awfull lot of people out there quite angry about NHS Dentistry at the moment.

I may just contact the Wlsh X Ray program or the BBC Watchdog porgram as this needs highlighting to the general public.

And goodness knows how many people are being RIPPED OFF!!:mad:

Just like I was tried to be.:D

It's interesting that you completely ignore the replies to the posts that are saying the same things the dentists here say!!

From the same thread you found at: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nhs/55407-nhs-dental-charges.html

Only some treatments are available on the NHS. A patient is entitled to all clinically necessary treatment. The dentist decides what is clinically necessary so if you don't like the advice you are given, you will have to find another one. I always give my patients the option between NHS and private treatment. 99% of missing teeth are treated by way of a plastic denture as that does the job. Just because a patient may prefer bridge does not mean that it is appropriate. There is a difference between what somebody wants and what they need.

It is also illegal for a dentist on the NHS to supply treatment that is more expensive than that that will do the job.

It can sometimes be appropriate to do something to a tooth, leave it for a time and depending on how the tooth behaves, to finally decide on how to treat it. How would you like to pay £198 straight away and then to have the tooth extracted as things were rushed? Yes, doing proper dentistry sometimes attracts a separate fee for a separate course of treatment (for that is what it is).

I've been thinking about the original scenario described by boozecruiser. The dentist who offered an appointment with the hygienist may have considered that a scale & polish wasn't justified under the NHS so offered the option on a private basis. Then, 'Foreign dentist with possible language barrier' + misunderstanding of treatment requirements = long rant about rip-off dentists!

boozercruiser

.................[ Apollonia removed the posts quoted from the google search referred to]..............

I have learned that this particular Forum is full of Dentists protecting the Vested Interest, and now further protected by a Moderator who looks after them.:mad:

Thank you for all your input guys.....but I have had enough of peeing in the wind.

Thats it....I am outa here.....

Goodbye.:wave:

elfen

I think I get the gist of this.

If you need a scale and polish (through having gum disease or I'd guess after fillings or dental work to make sure the gunk is gone from your teeth) then you get it with the dentist.

If you want one for cosmetic reasons the dentist is within their rights to hand you over to the hygienist, whose work comes under private care and would charge you £25.

And some who have had it free before are saying they can't get it free now...yeah?

Toothsmith

boozercruiser wrote: »

but I have had enough of peeing in the wind.

Thats it....I am outa here.....

Goodbye.:wave:

Do you promise this time?

~Chameleon~

Thanks to welshdent for providing the link to the BPE scoring.

I was diagnosed with periodontal disease about 2 years ago and told I needed to see the hygienist for treatment every 3mths at a cost of £45 a session. I managed to pay for 2 sessions but have since not been able to afford it as I'm currently on Incapacity Benefit.

At each check-up since I've been reminded that it is imperative for the health of my gums that I make the appts with the hygienist for scale and polishing.

There was also an incident last year whereby I had to fight to get an RCT done on NHS as I was advised I could only have it done as a private patient. I still have not had the RCT crowned as I was told it would need a 3month settlement period to ensure it wouldn't fail before crowning. Nothing further was mentioned about the crown at my last check-up.

I can now see from reading these threads that my dentist is trying every trick in the book to avoid treating me as NHS patient and try to force me to pay privately, which is impossible for me right now.

I am due for a check-up again on Monday and I know she will mention the hygienist again. How do I approach the subject of letting her know I'm aware of how the BPE scoring works and that I also know I qualify for, and I'm entitled to, this treatment under the NHS?

My oral hygiene is good... I brush twice daily, use interdental brushes & mouthwash etc. However, I am also diabetic and on various forms of medication which I've now learned can affect teeth & gums and exacerbate existing periodontal disease. I'm not the type of person to go kicking up a fuss but I do feel aggrieved that I am not receiving the care & treatment that I'm entitled to.

I have to take extra special care of my teeth now as following abdominal surgery I have to chew my food very carefully as I'm unable to digest food properly. Without my teeth I cannot eat and I already have several missing back teeth so can't afford to lose any more!

Toothsmith

1. Find out how the voice recorder function on your mobile phone works.

2. Turn it on before you go into the surgery.

3. Talk to her about your dental and gum health. Ask her what treatment she feels you NEED. Ask her what will happen if you do not get the treatment you need.

4. Ask her what options are available on the NHS to deal with the condition you have and how the treatment you NEED can be provided on the NHS.

5. If at any point she says the treatment you NEED is only available privately, or that it is unavailable on the NHS then say you believed that all necessary treatment was available on the NHS to an NHS patient.

Don't be fobbed off with the offer of a referral to some dental hospital department miles away and with a huge waiting list either. If that dentist claims to be able to treat your condition there at the practice privately, with just simple hygiene visits, then they should also be able to treat you there on the NHS. Either with the hygienist, or with the dentist doing the clean up.

There is nothing 'advanced' or 'outside the scope of normal dental practice' about cleaning someone's teeth for them.

If they continue to claim they cannot do it on the NHS, complain to the PCT.

jugglebug

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

Thanks to welshdent for providing the link to the BPE scoring.

I was diagnosed with periodontal disease about 2 years ago and told I needed to see the hygienist for treatment every 3mths at a cost of £45 a session. I managed to pay for 2 sessions but have since not been able to afford it as I'm currently on Incapacity Benefit.

At each check-up since I've been reminded that it is imperative for the health of my gums that I make the appts with the hygienist for scale and polishing.

There was also an incident last year whereby I had to fight to get an RCT done on NHS as I was advised I could only have it done as a private patient. I still have not had the RCT crowned as I was told it would need a 3month settlement period to ensure it wouldn't fail before crowning. Nothing further was mentioned about the crown at my last check-up.

I can now see from reading these threads that my dentist is trying every trick in the book to avoid treating me as NHS patient and try to force me to pay privately, which is impossible for me right now.

I am due for a check-up again on Monday and I know she will mention the hygienist again. How do I approach the subject of letting her know I'm aware of how the BPE scoring works and that I also know I qualify for, and I'm entitled to, this treatment under the NHS?

My oral hygiene is good... I brush twice daily, use interdental brushes & mouthwash etc. However, I am also diabetic and on various forms of medication which I've now learned can affect teeth & gums and exacerbate existing periodontal disease. I'm not the type of person to go kicking up a fuss but I do feel aggrieved that I am not receiving the care & treatment that I'm entitled to.

I have to take extra special care of my teeth now as following abdominal surgery I have to chew my food very carefully as I'm unable to digest food properly. Without my teeth I cannot eat and I already have several missing back teeth so can't afford to lose any more!

Please bear in mind that scaling and polishing for the treatment of gum disease can attract a band 2 charge which is £45.60
The problem is that the dept of health doesn't give guidance as to where the cut off between band 1 or 2 is. It says it is the clinicians opinion.
The upshot of this is that you have a wide variation in opinions!
Personally if I do the BPE and find a single code 3 then I tend to treat as band 1 because a single site doesn't take me much longer to treat, If I find more then band 2 as the treatment time goes up.
The system has massive over regulation in areas that don't matter much and terrible omissions where it does.
It also doesn't help that the information provided for patients makes no mention of this in the banding charges

~Chameleon~

jugglebug wrote: »

Please bear in mind that scaling and polishing for the treatment of gum disease can attract a band 2 charge which is £45.60
The problem is that the dept of health doesn't give guidance as to where the cut off between band 1 or 2 is. It says it is the clinicians opinion.
The upshot of this is that you have a wide variation in opinions!
Personally if I do the BPE and find a single code 3 then I tend to treat as band 1 because a single site doesn't take me much longer to treat, If I find more then band 2 as the treatment time goes up.
The system has massive over regulation in areas that don't matter much and terrible omissions where it does.
It also doesn't help that the information provided for patients makes no mention of this in the banding charges

I have free dental treatment. If I was to visit the hygienist every 3mths as suggested it would cost me £180 a year. It's not something I can realistically afford, especially whilst I'm currently paying for private medical fees elsewhere.